"Heavenly Language"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by coalsoffire

Is it heresy to term something "divine and heavenly" other than from the Bible? Yes, it elevates the thing described. Have you not ever wondered at some moments, "Where did that come from?! I surely have not the capacity to write or speak such a thing. God must have been involved." The term elevates God, not the medium through which he is expressed. It is nothing less than his mercy that we may experience divine and heavenly expressions of the Creator through his creatures. He is there, in us!

If God alone is elevated, then we probably agree there is little concern, but when the thing itself is elevated, then there is concern that we have made a new idol, and at what point do we stop appreciating God, as we bestow unending honors upon the one inventing the "new language."

I remember reading a book by Ron Kangas, "Response to Recent Accusations." One of the so-called "accusations" by John Ingalls et. al. was that the Recovery as a whole excessively elevated Witness Lee and his ministry. Ron Kangas' answer in the book was "can we ever honor a brother too much?" One of the elevations concerning WL was his promotion of the "new language."

[coalsoffire]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If God alone is elevated, then we probably agree there is little concern, but when the thing itself is elevated, then there is concern that we have made a new idol, and at what point do we stop appreciating God, as we bestow unending honors upon the one inventing the "new language."

I remember reading a book by Ron Kangas, "Response to Recent Accusations." One of the so-called "accusations" by John Ingalls et. al. was that the Recovery as a whole excessively elevated Witness Lee and his ministry. Ron Kangas' answer in the book was "can we ever honor a brother too much?" One of the elevations concerning WL was his promotion of the "new language."

Mother Theresa said of the lepers she ministered to, "touching God, in his distressing disguise." She honored them, and by honoring them, she honored God.

On the other hand, when the people said of Herod's speech, "The voice of a god and not of a man," and Herod did not give glory to God, an angel killed him.

It says "instantly" killed him--I am not sure Herod had much of a chance to attribute his words to God, but perhaps the wording means his speech did not give glory to God.

If words (or art or music or acts of charity) are intended and able to point people to God, to give him the glory, perhaps then we might call such things "heavenly & divine."

I was at a foot washing once. I noticed one very socially awkward brother washing his brother's feet, and after drying his brother's feet he put the brother's shoes back on, but forgot the socks. What I saw really touched me deeply--the awkward brother stretching himself in love--a heavenly and divine scene.

I hope to continue to see such scenes, and I hope to see less of the Herod type scenes, which abound in our culture. I treasure what there is to be treasured and I thank God for his mercy. I cannot say I treasure (hmm... I did say I love) the word "organic," but I am thankful for food grown the natural way, without pesticides or growth hormones. I am thankful that God is our organic food as well. Sometimes, perhaps, he is 'sold' to us with traces of pesticides & additions of growth hormones.

Perhaps this is why I love the word organic: The very best food for infants is breast milk--I like this picture: the mother gives of what she has taken in, digested, and, then, really, has been divinely transformed into the best food for her child. Other products, transformed by man, can also produce growth, but they do not contain all the mysterious elements of the breast milk, such as the mother's natural immunities.

HWMR: "Composition for prophecy with main points and sub points"--I encounter this particular space provided, for the first time, today, with that title. I plan to be rebelliously curious about me, what I've read this week, God, my experience, and write uncensored, like a journal entry. This title could be intimidating, and it appears intimidating, yet I refuse to give in to my fears. Perfect love casts out all fears & Jesus says not to fear because he is with me.

If I decide to drive the one hour to the nearest "meeting," I plan to keep my prophetic mouth shut, and listen, and learn. God knows what is in my heart. If he wants me to share it, then it will gush, quite organically, maybe like vomit even, out of my mouth.

Lord have mercy on us all!

[aron]

Originally Posted by coalsoffire

If words (or art or music or acts of charity) are intended and able to point people to God, to give him the glory, perhaps then we might call such things "heavenly & divine."

John wrote, "Little children, guard yourselves from idols." He was, I believe, referencing spiritual things which could ultimately usurp the place of God Himself in our hearts. Anything can point us to God. Many things do. The heavens themselves, wordlessly, declare the glory of God (Psa 19). But we do not elevate any of the starry messengers above their allotted station. When I see someone tout their "rich ministry" I remember John's warning.

Brother Lee's ministry was perhaps heavenly, and divine. But arguably so was that of Mother Teresa and Billy Graham and many, many others. To call particular attention to any ministry as heavenly and divine, as if somehow distinctive from any others, is to attempt evalutations that only God Himself is truly capable of.

To be safe, I think there is only one name, the name of Jesus. There is only one ministry, that of Jesus. There is only one speaking: through Jesus Christ (See Hebrews 1). The rest of us are but faint echoes. I am not comfortable lifting any voice above the rest, save the Shepherd alone.

Originally Posted by coalsoffire

HWMR: "Composition for prophecy with main points and sub points"--I encounter this particular space provided, for the first time, today, with that title. I plan to be rebelliously curious about me, what I've read this week, God, my experience, and write uncensored, like a journal entry.

If I decide to drive the one hour to the nearest "meeting," I plan to keep my prophetic mouth shut, and listen, and learn.

Enjoy the journey. If you keep your heart humble and open surely the Lord will meet you along the way.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One of the elevations concerning WL was his promotion of the "new language."

To me, this was a "divide and conquer" strategy. You end up with a special terminology from a special speaker which has a special meaning for an insular group.

I remember visiting a brother after a long absence. I told him where I was now living. He asked, "Are there any saints there?" I replied, "Yes, thousands of them." He kind of flinched and said, "You know what I mean." I said, "No, I do not." I refused to acknowledge a special meaning to the word.

Look at the words Lee uses in Peter's quote: "embodiment" and "realization". Good words. But no more divine than "love" or "respect" or "obedience" or "peace" or "righteousness". There is a whole nuther level of reality in front of us in the person of Jesus Christ. Or levels. Coining new words does not bring reality to our grasp. But the danger is that we may think it does; that somehow we have crafted the perfect box to contain God.

I was not impressed with Lee the wordsmith back in the day, when I was an LC acolyte. It was something I put up with to be in "the church life". I am even less sanguinary today. Contrary to what that sister declared in the meeting, I think that generations from now will equate Lee's terminology with Mao's "Great Leap Forward" rubric. It is phraseology designed to market a very earthly plan.

"Youth Propagation Groups" -- remember that one? "Ministry of the age"? "One trumpet"? Inward-looking rhetoric of an insular sect. "Trainings"; "Blending"; "Consummation": as if somehow declaring these words loudly with clenched fists will bring some higher "heavenly" level of existence. That sister's eloquent and heartfelt speech could not cover this.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

To me, this was a "divide and conquer" strategy. You end up with a special terminology from a special speaker which has a special meaning for an insular group.

When believers become persuaded that their extra-Biblical, elevated terminology somehow imbues them with some special spiritual status, it is dangerous indeed, aron. Look at these quotes from the Blendeds ...

“By 1994 the ministry in the Lord’s recovery had brought the recovery into a new realm, a new stage, and a new culture with a new language. The ability to speak this new language as a native speaker is a testimony that we have been reconstituted. Today there is opposition to learning this language.” [RK, The Ministry, vol. 9, No. 5, May 2005, p. 51]

“The Lord’s move in His recovery is always advancing…This culture is so divine and mysterious that it requires a mysterious and divine language to communicate it… Therefore, we have a new language today. We need to pick up the new language. Even if we do not understand what it all means, we should still begin speaking … We need to speak the new language.” [MC, The Ministry, vol. 9, No. 3, March 2005, p. 51]

“Where is there pure language today? It is not in the world. It is not in Christianity … In the Lord’s recovery there is a pure language, the language of the pure God.” [RK, The Ministry, vol. 9, No. 5, May 2005, p. 11]

The arrogance coming out of Anaheim is simply incredible. They have convinced themselves that they, and only they, speak the pure language of God, a language only found in the books published by LSM, and not the plain old "Babylonian" language spoken in the Bible. God has "improved" his vocabulary and only let a select few know it. In fact, if we can get unbelievers to speak the new vocabulary, they will be reconstituted with this pure language directly from the pure God, thus bypassing the overly tedious steps of believing, suffering, obeying, walking by faith, loving your brothers, etc.

.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The arrogance coming out of Anaheim is simply incredible.

First pride, then the crash—the bigger the ego, the harder the fall. Proverbs 16:18, The Message

(Pride goes before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.)

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The arrogance coming out of Anaheim is simply incredible. They have convinced themselves that they, and only they, speak the pure language of God, a language only found in the books published by LSM, and not the plain old "Babylonian" language spoken in the Bible. God has "improved" his vocabulary and only let a select few know it.

Language is the primary concern of Witness Lee and the Anaheim Politburo (and I would also say with Titus Chu/Cleveland.) They decide what words can and cannot be used.

In addition to their boundless arrogance IMHO 2 other obvious problems are:

1. Nobody knows what they are talking about outside the LC. Good preachers and teachers are able to contextualize the gospel and use language and examples that people understand.

2. Their theological vocabulary has no semblance at all to their own reality. E.g. they teach being saturated with the processed Triune God while suing their brothers and sisters in Christ for real estate, etc.

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Nobody knows what they are talking about outside the LC.

This. I was talking about exactly this with someone yesterday. He likened this "heavenly language" to what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 14.

v. 6 Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?

v. 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

v. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me.

I think the analogy between the local church language and tongues is right on. Brothers and sisters should be able to understand each other. If Christians can't understand other Christians when speaking about tenets of faith then something is wrong.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Brothers and sisters should be able to understand each other. If Christians can't understand other Christians when speaking about tenets of faith then something is wrong.

I totally agree with this and would also include unbelievers - which Paul also addressed in Corinthians.

To a great extent Witness Lee and now the Anaheim Politburo are isolated from society at large. They live and work in the LC system bubble where their special language can be used and understood by the initiated. Outside of that place their language cannot be understood and they pride themselves in this fact as if outside listeners are somehow inferior.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Language is the primary concern of Witness Lee and the Anaheim Politburo (and I would also say with Titus Chu/Cleveland.) They decide what words can and cannot be used.

Titus Chu in Cleveland really did not promote this kind of thing, in fact it was regularly exposed as foolishness, especially after WL passed. Titus, in fact, much preferred creative and inspirational thoughts about the Bible and our Christian walk rather than mere vocabularies.

He would regularly walk the fine line by never saying anything against WL, who was the source of this "Heavenly Language," yet continually berate the Blendeds for latching on to it and promoting it.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Titus Chu in Cleveland really did not promote this kind of thing, in fact it was regularly exposed as foolishness, especially after WL passed. Titus, in fact, much preferred creative and inspirational thoughts about the Bible and our Christian walk rather than mere vocabularies.

He would regularly walk the fine line by never saying anything against WL, who was the source of this "Heavenly Language," yet continually berate the Blendeds for latching on to it and promoting it.

Titus Chu was a master at being 2 faced when it came to Witness Lee. His way of handling it probably confused a lot of people. IMHO to be "against" the Anaheim Politburo is to be against Witness Lee because in fact they pride themselves in following him in word and deed and do it quite well - including ousting Titus Chu for flimsy reasons with no biblical basis. They admitted that they asked each other WWWLD and they did it to Titus.

But anyway I'm glad to hear he is not a proponent of the "Heavenly Language" theory! I was mostly thinking of him not liking the use of the word "pastor" and other such language violations.

(BTW how much do you think Titus' clinging to Witness Lee, ground of locality, certain music styles, etc. is to pander to a certain constituency within the LCs in the GLA who are supportive of him? I.e. would he be less LCish if his most supportive constituency was as well?)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

But anyway I'm glad to hear he is not a proponent of the "Heavenly Language" theory! I was mostly thinking of him not liking the use of the word "pastor" and other such language violations.

(BTW how much do you think Titus' clinging to Witness Lee, ground of locality, certain music styles, etc. is to pander to a certain constituency within the LCs in the GLA who are supportive of him? I.e. would he be less LCish if his most supportive constituency was as well?)

You are right about that. The brothers with Titus hate the word "pastor" as being anathema to Christian service. The word rapidly spread that John Myer wanted to be a "pastor," and thus he received little sympathy from the staunchest of TC's supporters.

Not sure how much Titus Chu clings to the local ground. In his last meeting with John Myer, apparently he posed a question to John about the local ground, and he was not satisfied with John's response. The local ground is part of the "spiritual identity" of all the old Recovery people. How could Titus begin to question that? Even the Cleveland elders might quarantine him if he did that!

Titus loves the classics. He put together a symphony of quality musicians who traveled about playing some of WN's songs. A few times he asked some sister to sing a hymn and she had a beautiful opera voice. Titus himself had a beautiful voice. But he was also pragmatic. He knew that the LC's would die off if they only sang classics. He promoted the young people churches with contemporary music, whether he liked it himself or not. He definitely was concerned about the future increase, and knew that changes were needed to reach Caucasians.

Titus encouraged the most gifted brothers to work with the young people on the campuses. Some of whom, like Myer and Debelek, were quite fruitful too. Yet Titus would continually "shoot himself in the foot" by the way he treated those he worked with. Many felt they were treated like "dogs," and have since left. And that's the irony with Titus, he is so gifted, and at the same time he can be so abusive, just like his mentor Witness Lee. Currently there is one "young people" church in Cleveland Heights. Since the leader there is his son-in-law, they might have a chance for long-term survival, since Titus' daughter would never tolerate her husband being abused by daddy. The other "young people" churches have either collapsed or sided with LSM.

[Peter Debelak]

(

BTW how much do you think Titus' clinging to Witness Lee, ground of locality, certain music styles, etc. is to pander to a certain constituency within the LCs in the GLA who are supportive of him? I.e. would he be less LCish if his most supportive constituency was as well?

growing up in Cleveland in 80s and early 90s, our YP meetings were almost entirely Bible-only. In junior/senior year, Craig Riesen was the serving one and we had an intense Bible study that pointedly did not use footnotes. I presume this was Titus influenced, tho Craig was pretty independent.

This was also around the time that Titus dubbed the Summer School Of Death because it had been too "doctrine" focused. I recall in one of these summer schools the very talented Esther Chung wrote a
Song that almost made fun of the "high peak" language (like, "what's that all mean anyhow - where did Christ as life go?").

Anyhow, just some recollections...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

Nobody knows what they are talking about outside the LC.

This is what eventually turned me off about the high-peak theology conveyed in the "Heavenly Language" -- who could I speak this too?!?

Except for a few minutes in the Anaheim trainings during prophesying time, this stuff was totally useless to me. What was I supposed to do with it? Do LC people actually speak this way with their wife and children?

Originally Posted by Ohio

When believers become persuaded that their extra-Biblical, elevated terminology somehow imbues them with some special spiritual status, it is dangerous indeed, aron. Look at these quotes from the Blendeds ...

The arrogance coming out of Anaheim is simply incredible. They have convinced themselves that they, and only they, speak the pure language of God, a language only found in the books published by LSM, and not the plain old "Babylonian" language spoken in the Bible. God has "improved" his vocabulary and only let a select few know it. In fact, if we can get unbelievers to speak the new vocabulary, they will be reconstituted with this pure language directly from the pure God, thus bypassing the overly tedious steps of believing, suffering, obeying, walking by faith, loving your brothers, etc.

.

I am pretty sure the term "pure language" is based on the prophecy in Zephaniah 3:9. Most expositors understand this to refer to the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is when the rest of the prophecy was fulfilled:


Zephaniah 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
3:13 The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.
3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I remember reading a book by Ron Kangas, "Response to Recent Accusations." One of the so-called "accusations" by John Ingalls et. al. was that the Recovery as a whole excessively elevated Witness Lee and his ministry. Ron Kangas' answer in the book was "can we ever honor a brother too much?" One of the elevations concerning WL was his promotion of the "new language."

In response to Ron's rhetoric, yes you can honor a brother too much. Look no further than the Gospel of John chapter 5. Problem with this is when you honor a brother too much, you become man-honoring. See verse 43:

"I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him."

As for the new language Ohio, when I was meeting in the local churches I found this language to be a distraction. When you focus on the intricate terminologies, I found my focus was lost why I'm there for. Moreover recieiving one another was more about learning and reciting the new terminologies and phrases than it was our salvation.
By the time I was led to meet elsewhere, it became apparent this language was not so heavenly, but something of the flesh in order to distinguish and exalt the local churches from other Christian assemblies within the Body life.