Andy Anderson on the "Overcomers"

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Igzy,

Witness Lee addressed the above scenario in blue in the teaching of the thief on the cross contrasting the thief's request (the Kingdom) with His promise (Paradise).

So what did the thief do to earn the kingdom reward?

[Cassidy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

So what did the thief do to earn the kingdom reward?

He didn't.

However, though the Lord did not grant the thief his request for the Kingdom, He did promise him the portion of every believer (Paradise)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

He didn't.

However, though the Lord did not grant the thief his request for the Kingdom, He did promise him the portion of every believer (Paradise)

So, in other words you are saying that the way Lee addressed the issue was to say that those who die before getting a chance to grow will miss out on the kingdom reward? Is that your point?

[Cassidy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

So, in other words you are saying that the way Lee addressed the issue was to say that those who die before getting a chance to grow will miss out on the kingdom reward? Is that your point?

Almost. In the case of the thief on the cross, definitely.

I say almost because it depends, for instance if they died by being martyred. Many believers died after first becoming believers through martyrdom. They "loved not their soul lives even unto death". I don't see that as a matter of growth exactly, more like following the Lord to the ultimate extent.

For instance, in Foxes Book of Martyrs there is one young sister mentioned (Blandina) that may fall into the category of young in age, maybe not a lot of opportunity for spiritual growth, but "loved not her soul-life even unto death" even through excruciating torture. I weep when I think about her suffering and consecration.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

Almost. In the case of the thief on the cross, definitely.

I say almost because it depends, for instance if they died by being martyred. Many believers died after first becoming believers through martyrdom. They "loved not their soul lives even unto death". I don't see that as a matter of growth exactly, more like following the Lord to the ultimate extent.

For instance, in Foxes Book of Martyrs there is one young sister mentioned (Blandina) that may fall into the category of young in age, maybe not a lot of opportunity for spiritual growth, but "loved not her soul-life even unto death" even through excruciating torture. I weep when I think about her suffering and consecration.

So if the thief would have somehow survived the crucifixion and gone on to live awhile he could have qualified for reward?

How long would he have had to live to have a chance to get into the kingdom reward?

[Cassidy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

So if the thief would have somehow survived the crucifixion and gone on to live awhile he could have qualified for reward?

How long would he have had to live to have a chance to get into the kingdom reward?

That is speculation. He died right there on the cross.

If your question is who is qualified for a reward that is up to the Lord. It depends on their circumstances and His righteous assessment. Of course, we want to be counted worthy. He is righteous in all His ways.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Cassidy

That is speculation. He died right there on the cross.

If your question is who is qualified for a reward that is up to the Lord. It depends on their circumstances and His righteous assessment. Of course, we want to be counted worthy. He is righteous in all His ways.

But you are speculating that he didn't gain the kingdom. Just because the Lord said he would be in Paradise neither states nor implies that he would not receive the kingdom.

The fact is, the thief may have gained the kingdom.