Does LSM Hold to Apostolic Succession?

[ABrotherinFaith]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Personal preference of ministry (even if you call it God's leading) doesn't excuse uplifting one ministry over another or separating yourself from other Christians over it. ...
I don't buy the special calling argument at all.

Exactly. Special calling, perhaps. Paul had one to the Gentiles, although I doubt he thumbed his nose at a Jew or a Christian who hadn't been brought to the Lord by Paul, if he met one on the road. Paul was stronger in his faith (Galatians) than Peter (at least at that moment), who had walked with the Lord, yet in his opposing him to his face he didn't then turn and tell the believers that his (Paul's) ministry was superior to Peter's or the other disciples'. Nor did he say they no longer had the oracle. Yes, Cassidy, Paul, vindicated his ministry, but is was never at the expense of other true believers, it was because of those who sought to undermine the truth. He was never dismissive of other Christians.

The oracle of God may be with one man for a moment, that's no reason to follow THE MAN. The man is simply the conduit, the mouthpiece. In Paul's letters, in Peter's, in the Acts, I can't recall anyone disparaging Christianity at large the way the LC does. I think this is a direct result of WL claiming to the THE MOTA, to being THE ONE with the oracle.

"We are not a new denomination. Neither are we a new sect, a new movement, or a new organization. We are not here to join a certain sect or form our own sect. Other than having a special calling and commission from God, there would be no need for us to exist independently. The reason we are here is that God has given us a special calling."

Cassidy, your quote, I heard that again again today at the meeting. "We are not a movement. We are not a movement within Christianity." Are "we" outside Christianity? In your opinion? What are "we?"

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

"We are not a new denomination. Neither are we a new sect, a new movement, or a new organization. We are not here to join a certain sect or form our own sect. Other than having a special calling and commission from God, there would be no need for us to exist independently. The reason we are here is that God has given us a special calling."

Cassidy, your quote, I heard that again again today at the meeting. "We are not a movement. We are not a movement within Christianity." Are "we" outside Christianity? In your opinion? What are "we?"

This mentality started by Nee and continued to this day by the LRC is simply a way to claim unique purity and validity above all others. They envision an ideal--not a sect, movement or organization, but simply God's pure "move"--then claim to be the ideal.

Well, it's a nice thought. But wishing it were so don't make it so. I could start a movement tomorrow, put out a shingle and say "'we are not a sect, movement, or organization, blah, blah..." Big deal. It doesn't mean anything. It's really just a way the LRC movement convinced itself they were above all the other "pretenders."

It's just wrong-headed thinking. Sure, on the one hand there is just God's pure move. But that doesn't mean God doesn't use movements and organizations in his move. But the LRC tried to convince everyone that they could be a move and not be a movement. Or be a move and not be an organization. Even if it were possible how would you know? Because they sure look like a movement and organization to me. And, anyway, it's a claim based on the idea that God doesn't like movements or organizations. And I see no evidence that is true. So it's a empty claim on several levels.

Again, it's just a way they tried to claim higher status for themselves and dismiss everyone else.

Again, I understand the instinct to want to be pure. Where the LRC messed up is to believe they were purer than anyone else. Ironically, that claim is evidence they are anything but pure.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Exactly. Special calling, perhaps.

A ministry can have a certain focus. And in that sense you can call it special. I have no problem with that.

But that's not what Nee meant by "special." What he meant was that everyone else was doing it wrong and he was called to do it right. To him everyone else was a sect, movement or organization (which to him was short of the ideal and wrong), and he was not going to be those things.

The problem is he never figured out how not to be a movement or organization. All he did was claim not to be one and continued to want to be special and different. And, with excruciating irony, in the end he made a sect. Because when you claim to be special and you really mean "better," that's what you become.

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

Cassidy, your quote, I heard that again (and) again today at the meeting. "We are not a movement. We are not a movement within Christianity." Are "we" outside Christianity? In your opinion? What are "we?"

"The Lord’s recovery is not a part of Christianity"
—Ron Kangas, Senior Editor and Director of Living Stream Ministry (LSM)


"There is an unbridgeable gap between the Lord’s recovery and Christianity" —Ron Kangas, (The Ministry, June, 2004, p. 10)

"We need to maintain the gap between us and Christianity; the wider the gap is the better…"—Ron Kangas

"There is a great gulf fixed…between the Lord’s recovery and Christianity."—Ron Kangas

"If there are any bridges…between a local church and Christianity, I hope that we would go back, burn the bridges and broaden the gap."—Ron Kangas

"There is an irreconcilable difference between the church life in the Lord’s recovery and today’s Christianity in any of its forms."—Ron Kangas

"It is impossible for there to be any reconciliation between the recovery and Christianity."—Ron Kangas

"There is a separation between us and all the denominations, between us and all forms of organized Christianity"—Ron Kangas

"We should not try through diplomacy or negotiation to be reconciled."—Ron Kangas

(NOTE: All quotes from The Ministry, Feb., 2004, pp. 8-25 unless otherwise indicated)

"Christianity today, the reality of Babylon."—Benson Phillips, LSM President

"We should not bring anything of Christianity into the Lord’s recovery…we accept nothing of Christianity."—Benson Phillips (The Ministry, March 2005, p. 121)

"The entire situation—not a part of it, not a majority of it, but the entire situation—of today’s Christianity is in degradation."—Bill Lawson

***********************

I remember when this message was given in Winnipeg - and I remember the confusion as the attendees left the meeting... "What are we supposed to call ourselves now? What should we say we are?" What indeed.

(quotes of Ron Kangas, Benson Phillips, and Bill Lawson provided by www.whataspin.com)