Does LSM Hold to Apostolic Succession?

[UntoHim]

Time to bring these quotes out of the mothballs:

"That Lee! Lee has to be famous! Lee! Lee! Lee must have the credit! And if you listen to me, you do not listen to Lee, you listen to the very God in His oracle spoken by me"...."Going with God's oracle, surely there is the deputy authority of God in this oracle. Whoever speaks for God, he surely has certain divine authority, I'm claiming this for Lee!"
Elders Meeting, Pasadena California November 1988

John Ingalls adds this commentary:
"Now I would ask, are these the words of a sober man, the words of a spiritual man, a man of God. To me it is shocking to hear him speak this way, for he has indeed been used of God in the past to speak His Word. But to vindicate oneself so blatantly and boastfully indicates to me a fall. May the Lord have mercy on us all"

Speaking the Truth in Love, Page 98 - John Ingalls
Copyright @1990 The Word & the Testimony

[Cal]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Time to bring these quotes out of the mothballs:

"That Lee! Lee has to be famous! Lee! Lee! Lee must have the credit! And if you listen to me, you do not listen to Lee, you listen to the very God in His oracle spoken by me"...."Going with God's oracle, surely there is the deputy authority of God in this oracle. Whoever speaks for God, he surely has certain divine authority, I'm claiming this for Lee!"
Elders Meeting, Pasadena California November 1988

John Ingalls adds this commentary:
"Now I would ask, are these the words of a sober man, the words of a spiritual man, a man of God. To me it is shocking to hear him speak this way, for he has indeed been used of God in the past to speak His Word. But to vindicate oneself so blatantly and boastfully indicates to me a fall. May the Lord have mercy on us all"

Speaking the Truth in Love, Page 98 - John Ingalls
Copyright @1990 The Word & the Testimony

Not to pick on Cassidy, but he is a classic example of someone who is "locked in" on Lee. He is a victim of a very pernicious error. (I know because I used to be under it myself.) For once you become convinced that a minister has the kind of authority LCers think Lee has, that belief becomes viciously self-enforcing. There is little that can happen to shake it because, for one, you've been trained to believe questioning Lee is the beginning of degradation. So you instinctively flee from any questioning and congratulate yourself for having done so.

So, considering the potential for error and the difficulty in correcting that error, it seems very unlikely that God would put in place a principle that makes it so difficult to objectively reconsider a Christian figure. Especially since such a principle is not supported by the Bible!

Why do LCers extend so much authority to Lee? Why are they so afraid to question him. Other teachers have been consider by them to be MOTAs. But do they fear questioning, Luther, or Murray or Darby? Lee is just another and is now departed. So why do his words still hold such power over them?

The answer is really simple. They are afraid to question him because they've been trained to think that way. Like I said, this is a self-enforcing pernicious principle which, upon reflection, should be considered extremely unlikely to have been put in place by God.

[TLFisher]

Having family still meeting within the same system Igzy, the issue arises from time to time.
Now it is no longer Lee, but the blended coworkers. There is an aura of not wanting to be different as they have discernment of the feeling of the Body. Which is why I ask are you man-honoring or God-honoring?
Are you man-fearing or God-fearing?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Terry

Having family still meeting within the same system Igzy, the issue arises from time to time.
Now it is no longer Lee, but the blended coworkers. There is an aura of not wanting to be different as they have discernment of the feeling of the Body. Which is why I ask are you man-honoring or God-honoring?
Are you man-fearing or God-fearing?

Terry, "Feeling of the Body" is not biblical, either. It's just peer pressure dolled up as something spiritual.

[NeitherFirstnorLast]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Why do LCers extend so much authority to Lee? Why are they so afraid to question him. Other teachers have been consider by them to be MOTAs. But do they fear questioning, Luther, or Murray or Darby? Lee is just another and is now departed. So why do his words still hold such power over them?

The answer is really simple. They are afraid to question him because they've been trained to think that way. Like I said, this is a self-enforcing pernicious principle which, upon reflection, should be considered extremely unlikely to have been put in place by God.

I don't think the answer IS that simple, brother.

The LC trains it's adherents to believe that they are more than Christians, they are a kind of super-Christian (I heard some in my locality refer to themselves in such a way). "Overcomers", the ones in the Flow, God's Recovered Bride, etc. etc.... Whatever we were, we were special. And we didn't just show up on Sundays, no - we devoted our lives to this movement. Some even married spouses based on the elders council - were sent out to new cities or even countries based on what the ministry told them to do. Everything they had was given to LSM, because you absolutely believed it was God's will.

What if it wasn't?

That's a terrifying concept.

If you invested everything you had of yourself into a LIE, then you who thought you were rich and had everything were really poor and wretched and miserable and blind and naked. This isn't just someone's taste in a minister we're talking about, and it's not just like unplugging from one church to invest your time at another one down the street. We're talking about an entire life given over to something corrupt.

When you first start to question Lee (and we've both been through this), then you realize what he has built is really a house of cards. Pull one out, and others start to topple. Lee was wrong about this, but then this wrong idea sprang from that, and that for another, etc. etc. Before you know it, very little is left - and you are left facing the inevitable: You were deceived. That is a bitter pill to swallow.

This doesn't excuse willfully accepting the deceipt for sake of comfort. Far from it, we are all responsible for the choices we made. If we were swindled into believing a lie (and I was too, not throwing stones), then it's our fault. Were we better grounded in the Word, had we (I) not quenched the Spirit, we (I) would have more readily escaped... and less scathed.

I can only imagine what someone with 30 years or more invested must feel, knowing that questions maybe ought to be asked - but being terrified of the answers I'd uncover...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

When you first start to question Lee (and we've both been through this), then you realize what he has built is really a house of cards. Pull one out, and others start to topple. Lee was wrong about this, but then this wrong idea sprang from that, and that for another, etc. etc. Before you know it, very little is left - and you are left facing the inevitable: You were deceived. That is a bitter pill to swallow.

Besides that nagging feeling within that used to haunt me, the first card to be pulled out was the truth that John Ingalls was not a leprous rebel, but a whistleblower, crying out for righteousness.

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

I can only imagine what someone with 30 years or more invested must feel, knowing that questions maybe ought to be asked - but being terrified of the answers I'd uncover...

Thanks for even trying to understand my plight.