What This Forum Means To You. What It Should Be.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

What This Forum Means To You. What This Forum Should Be.

Two purposes here.
#1 What does this forum mean to you. Please try to detach yourself from the persons and personalities as best you can. I know this may be really hard for some of us, but take a shot at it.
#2 If you had a magical wand and could make this forum to be exactly what you wanted it to be....tell us what it might look like.

This is an open book test. There are not right or wrong answers. I'm just one of the test takers here and don't have time to give my answers right now.

Titus 1:5 "For this cause I left you in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting".

To me, I hope we can play a part in setting in order the things of the LRC that are wanting. On the one hand we have clearly identified some errors and things that are wanting, but on the other hand we can testify that we were genuine seekers of Jesus and that many of the saints still in the LRC are also.

I think our first concern should be that the leaders in the church be "blameless". I feel it is very scriptural that we have focused on the leaders in the LRC who were/are not blameless and taken issue with that. If you are going to set in order the things that are lacking with the LRC it begins with cleaning house of the corrupt leadership.

In Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

How do we determine if you can hold fast to the faithful word? Or that you can use sound doctrine to exhort and convince others? Clearly this forum is good practice because if you can't do it here you can't do it anywhere.

1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

it is easy to discuss with Christian brothers matters of the faith, but how about with unruly? How about with vain talkers? How about with deceivers? Once again this forum is a great place to practice dealing with these as well.

1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

This is clearly a charge to Titus and to us. We need to stop their mouths and this forum seems like an ideal channel to do that. Imagine any new contact who goes online to look into the Local Church and Witness Lee? How about their family? If Nigel Tomes and John Meyers and other members of LRC are reading this forum, then surely we have an opportunity to exhort and convince the current members of the LRC. WL and the Blendeds are teaching things which they ought not and they are doing it for filthy lucre's sake.

As a result we need to "rebuke them sharply" which I think this forum has done, on occasion. We should focus particularly on the "Jewish fables" that WL told, and the "commandments of men which turn from the truth".

Yes, the leaders of the LRC including WL profess that they know God, but in works they "deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."


So then, this forum needs to speak things that are of sound doctrine. One church one city, and the Minister of the Age are doctrines that are not sound. Deputy authority has become a "commandment of men who have turned from the truth". We need to have "sound speech that cannot be condemned" particularly after being trained by someone who was very injurious in his speech, full of condemnation.

Now we know the LRC is a very litigious group, but Paul says we need to speak these things "and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

On the one hand we need a backbone, on the other hand we need to submit ourselves to authority. Unruly men will listen to no one, we have to be those that can hear the fellowship and correction of others.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Titus 1:5 "For this cause I left you in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting".
To me, I hope we can play a part in setting in order the things of the LRC that are wanting. On the one hand we have clearly identified some errors and things that are wanting, but on the other hand we can testify that we were genuine seekers of Jesus and that many of the saints still in the LRC are also.

Thanks for this ZNP. (you may not be thanking me when I done though)

There are "things wanting" in every christian group...maybe since the beginning in the days after Pentecost. Surely in the last days that we are living in there are things wanting. Things wanting in our ways of gospel preaching, things wanting in our ways of meeting., things wanting in our theology, things wanting our giving to the poor. Then list goes on.

I wonder now, as I have for many a year... "without spot or wrinkle or any such thing". Such a bride does not exist. Or... perhaps the spots and wrinkles are not quite what we think they are. Our Lord DESERVES a perfect bride without spot or wrinkle or any such thing - does he not? Will the perfection come before he returns? I think not. I think "in an instant, in a twinkling of eye" he will get his spotless and wrinkle-less bride.

The mistake of Watchman Nee, and the mistake greatly magnified by Witness Lee, was one of assuming that the bride could be produced by us mortal men. We can produce nothing but sin and rebellion against God. The Old Testament showed us this - the New Testament showed us this - and now 2,000 + years of church history has showed us this. Maybe we should stop looking at us mortal men and look at the bridegroom. The bridegroom clearly said "I will build my church". Pretty spiritual. Pretty heavy duty. Pretty much out of our hands and out of our control.

Where does the rubber meet the road when it comes to building the church? It comes with us mortal men. "whosoever shall come". This is what the bridegroom has said from the beginning. We don't pick. We don't choose. "Love thy neighbor as thy self". There is the rubber, and there is the road. This is what is sorely missing in the Local Church of Witness Lee. "Whosoever" is not necessarily on a college campus. "Whosoever" may not be an educated person at all. "Whosoever" may not look like you or sound like you.

May God have mercy.

[ZNPaaneah]

Answering this question is certainly a very big part of this forum. Were the sins and evils of the LRC who they are or is there a dichotomy?

If PL is representative of who the saints in the LRC are then without a doubt this is not just a matter of "filling up that which is wanting".

I have shared my testimony extensively and from my experience PL was not representative. There are others who have also shared on this forum extensively, I don't wish to list them by name, but from their testimony as well it would be a nasty insult to say that PL represented them. For these saints is it fair to say "something is wanting"?

According to Paul there were "many" unruly ones, granted, many vain talkers, again granted, and many deceivers, again granted.

Paul says "their mouths must be stopped". That is certainly a strong word. He is not suggesting that there is something "wanting" in their speaking, but rather they need to be shut down completely. Silenced. He says they are "teaching things which they ought not to". Again, I agree that many of the things WL, LSM and the Blendeds teach are things they "ought not to teach". And Paul says they teach these things "for filthy lucre's sake". Once again I agree completely. I think the heinous teachings in the LRC are designed to create a monopoly and captive market of the saints, the purpose is to "make merchandise of the saints". Why do they teach "one church one city", or that "WL was the MOTA" or that Christianity is "degraded"? Surely it is so that they have a monopoly on the ministry, it is for "filthy lucre's sake".

But it is easy to prove that only a small minority of those in the LRC have a financial incentive to do what they do, as a result this word from Paul can only refer to a small percent of those in the LRC.

Likewise the LRC is very strict over who is able to teach, as a result the word that "they teach things they ought not" also only refers to a small percent.

The people who need to be stopped are the ones who profess to know God but with their works deny Him. I think we have some very clear and definite examples of these in the LRC, but that this word does not apply to all saints in the LRC, doesn't even apply to a majority.

[ZNPaaneah]

Helping believers discern false prophets.

We have seen that there is a correlation between the Local Church and WL, with other false prophets. Therefore the lessons we have learned could help others as well. We know that "there are many false Christs who have gone out" and we know this comes to a head at the end of the age with the False Prophet and Anti Christ. Therefore the lessons we have learned could be very valuable in saving some from this temptation.