Is it the Message, or the Men?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The point of this thread is that the reputation of the men and the validity of their teaching are two separate issues. The LC tries to make them the same thing.

Watchman Nee taught (not sure where) that a man's ministry ought to end with his death, based on a verse about King David (not sure which one.)

After Lee's death, Titus Chu used this teaching against the Blendeds. His point, of course, was two-fold. First, since Lee has passed, the ministry work (e.g. elders' trainings) he carried on should also end. Secondly, since none of the Blendeds had their own ministry, they should also cease to exist. The Blendeds, of course, would not let that happen, so they quarantined him.

Many brothers agreed with this. How could book editors, like Kangas and Marks, who had never even started or shepherded a church, give trainings to "perfect" the elders. But since Philip Lee had already paved the way for unsaved and immoral men to "perfect" all the elders during the new way, anything in the Recovery was now possible.

This, of course, diverges somewhat from your topic at hand, Igzy, but it emphasizes the LC mentality, that if Nee and Lee were perfect, then all their teachings were perfect, and even a caveman could use these teachings to raise up elders in the LC's.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This, of course, diverges somewhat from your topic at hand, Igzy, but it emphasizes the LC mentality, that if Nee and Lee were perfect, then all their teachings were perfect, and even a caveman could use these teachings to raise up elders in the LC's.

But if they weren't perfect, then they were just ministers whose teaching may or may not be beneficial, just like all the other ministers.

That is why it is okay, and in fact needed, to know and even discuss the imperfections, some gross, of even those Christians we might consider "great servants." Otherwise, given human nature, we would be tempted to succumb to damaging reverence for flawed men, and feel compelled to swallow the camels of bad teachings.

The flip side is this: Any party which tries to sell some person as the greatest minister of the age, or the sole authority, or the one we all need to defer to above all others, has an agenda other than God's. They might not think they do, but they do. For all their claims about being for the eternal purpose of God, the LC is really about something else. They just need to wake up to that fact.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The flip side is this: Any party which tries to sell some person as the greatest minister of the age, or the sole authority, or the one we all need to defer to above all others, has an agenda other than God's. They might not think they do, but they do. For all their claims about being for the eternal purpose of God, the LC is really about something else. They just need to wake up to that fact.

The LC's saints are among some of the most devoted, and know how to present all the good things of God in their possession to their new guests. Problems surface when new visitors get wind of what really is stressed at LSM, like this MOTA nonsense. Guests hear about "autonomous" local churches, and then quickly learn how much influence Anaheim has over the church.

Contradictions such as these, and there are many more like them, smell like hypocrisy and dishonesty, and they are. This is why Lee's influence can never go far. As much as Lee and company has tried to keep their dirty laundry from sight, it's too late. If you wanted to rightly maintain such an honorable and upright image for all to see and thus receive your ministry, then like my mom told me, "you should have thought about it before you did all those bad things."