Is it the Message, or the Men?

[Cal]

Well, guys. I generally try to approach people with respect, giving them the benefit of the doubt. To me, launching the torpedoes of "You are not Christians nor a church" at the LC would be a losing proposition--sort of like the last insults a couple hurls at each other before the divorce. It doesn't really help, and the fact is you are standing on uncertain ground when you say it.

I prefer to take what someone claims to believe, and show them why their behavior is inconsistent with their belief. In this case, the LC likes to think they are carrying the message the world needs to hear. My point is, whether they are or not, seeking to uphold the reputations of Nee and Lee at all costs only hinders that mission. Being seen as those who would bury the facts about the history of their movement can only make others suspicious of them and their message.

The linchpin that holds the whole LC error together is the idea that leadership, especially Nee and Lee, must never be questioned. Take that out, make them realize that there is an appropriate way to do so, and that being clear about the failures of historical figures is not only helpful, but often necessary, and you have a chance for reform.

I do not believe the rank and file LCers really prefer being unquestioning sheep. They have just been convinced that is God's way. They are wrong. And that's what this thread is trying to help show.

[InChristAlone]

I admit that I am biased against the LC and LCers. I have no respect for this organization. I don't like what they have done with my wife, her family, and every saint I know. The cult brainwashed them to such an extent that they lost ability to look at their organization and their believes critically. They turned themselves into sponges that soak up any hogwash the LSM feeds them. They idolize WL, blindly believe every LR doctrine, and get up in arms over any critical remark. I know they are just victims. But it's painful to see them recruiting, deceiving, and brainwashing other people. They do not share the love of Christ with new believers. They just clone each other, turning new believers into slaves of the doctrine. "The blind leading the blind."

It's hard to help LCers see the truth. If they prefer to keep their eyes closed, then no man is capable to show them anything. Especially, when this man is like me, who doesn't have much love in his heart.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

I admit that I am biased against the LC and LCers. I have no respect for this organization. I don't like what they have done with my wife, her family, and every saint I know. The cult brainwashed them to such an extent that they lost ability to look at their organization and their believes critically. They turned themselves into sponges that soak up any hogwash the LSM feeds them. They idolize WL, blindly believe every LR doctrine, and get up in arms over any critical remark. I know they are just victims. But it's painful to see them recruiting, deceiving, and brainwashing other people. They do not share the love of Christ with new believers. They just clone each other, turning new believers into slaves of the doctrine. "The blind leading the blind."

It's hard to help LCers see the truth. If they prefer to keep their eyes closed, then no man is capable to show them anything. Especially, when this man is like me, who doesn't have much love in his heart.

I cannot color code brothers and sisters in the local churches. While meeting there it's very easy to say objectively so and so is cold or so and so is hot, all the while not having a personal relationship to know what brothers and sisters are going through. Which is why is it's very easy to claim the high peaks ministry all the while being oblivious what is happening at ground level.
While there may be brothers and sisters whose behavior fits InChristAlone's post (showing partiality towards the blending brother's speaking), but that is not indicative of brothers and sisters meeting in the local churches as a whole.
What if I told you a family I've known for nearly 40 years have no problem inviting former leading ones and their spouses into their home.
Another I've known for 20+ echoes the concerns John Ingalls brought forth in Speaking the Truth In Love. Sure you can send your children through FTTA, but that doesn't mean you're 100% one with LSM. I think for many in the local churches, there is not a better alternative for meeting as the church in their respective localities. The problem is not the message, but men who have yet to be humbled.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by Terry

I cannot color code brothers and sisters in the local churches. While meeting there it's very easy to say objectively so and so is cold or so and so is hot, all the while not having a personal relationship to know what brothers and sisters are going through. Which is why is it's very easy to claim the high peaks ministry all the while being oblivious what is happening at ground level.
While there may be brothers and sisters whose behavior fits InChristAlone's post (showing partiality towards the blending brother's speaking), but that is not indicative of brothers and sisters meeting in the local churches as a whole.
What if I told you a family I've known for nearly 40 years have no problem inviting former leading ones and their spouses into their home.
Another I've known for 20+ echoes the concerns John Ingalls brought forth in Speaking the Truth In Love. Sure you can send your children through FTTA, but that doesn't mean you're 100% one with LSM. I think for many in the local churches, there is not a better alternative for meeting as the church in their respective localities. The problem is not the message, but men who have yet to be humbled.

Brother Terry, of course, not all LCers are the same. But I am talking about majority that I see in my locality, especially when young Asian brothers and sisters stand up and prophesy at conferences or on the Lord’s Day. In everyday life, they are different people with different characters. But when they talk about God, discuss Morning Revival, or share what things touched their hearts, most of them do it the same way, with the same words, affection, and intonation, as if someone installed a malware in their brains. They are spiritual clones of each other.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

Brother Terry, of course, not all LCers are the same. But I am talking about majority that I see in my locality, especially when young Asian brothers and sisters stand up and prophesy at conferences or on the Lord’s Day. In everyday life, they are different people with different characters. But when they talk about God, discuss Morning Revival, or share what things touched their hearts, most of them do it the same way, with the same words, affection, and intonation, as if someone installed a malware in their brains. They are spiritual clones of each other.

They would call this "the one accord."

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They would call this "the one accord."

That's right. But in North Korea, one accord is more impressive.

In North Korea, they have been building a communist utopia. In the LRC, they have been building WL's utopia. Both are striving for unreachable.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

That's right. But in North Korea, one accord is more impressive.

In North Korea, they have been building a communist utopia. In the LRC, they have been building WL's utopia. Both are striving for unreachable.

Years ago, back when we were litigating the Mindbenders book, we would explain away some of our extreme behaviors by claiming that "some cults had church-like tendencies."

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

Brother Terry, of course, not all LCers are the same. But I am talking about majority that I see in my locality, especially when young Asian brothers and sisters stand up and prophesy at conferences or on the Lord’s Day. In everyday life, they are different people with different characters. But when they talk about God, discuss Morning Revival, or share what things touched their hearts, most of them do it the same way, with the same words, affection, and intonation, as if someone installed a malware in their brains. They are spiritual clones of each other.

God knows their hearts. Of course with me not knpwing their hearts I don't know how much is for appearance and how much they really believe the ministry is putting into print.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I do not believe the rank and file LCers really prefer being unquestioning sheep. They have just been convinced that is God's way. They are wrong. And that's what this thread is trying to help show.

I think it's impossible to generalize about the individuals in the local church of LSM.

For example, I know of two gays that have been members of the LSM LC for decades. You wouldn't know it from the inside. They are deep in the closet.

One of them that I talked to recently doesn't care about Nee or Lee, or what they said or did.