Became or Not Became - Interpreting 1Cor 15:45

[FaithInChrist]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

The apostle Paul, a monotheistic, Jewish rabbi wrote the following to some people in Corinth around 57AD:

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."(2 Corinthians 13:13)

I'm sorry to seem nitpicky, but the actual reference is 2 Corinthians 13:14, which is the verse I will be working with in this post about the Trinity.

2) On the Trinity using 2 Corinthians 13:14: http://online.recoveryversion.org/Fo...sp?FNtsID=5199

Just a heads up, I’m only covering the first two paragraphs of the footnote in this post.

i) In the first paragraph of the footnote, Philip Schaff is quoted, introducing the term “hypostases.” This is the same term that ICA mentions in post #59:

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

Following the Holy Scriptures and the Church Fathers, the Church believes that the Trinity is three divine persons (hypostases) who share one essence (ousia). It is paradoxical to believe thus, but that is how God has revealed himself. All three persons are consubstantial with each other, that is, they are of one essence (homoousios) and coeternal. God is not an impersonal essence or mere "higher power," but rather each of the divine persons relates to mankind personally.
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/doctrine1.aspx

It seems to me that this opening paragraph establishes that God is both three and one. His plurality and His unity compose His Trinity. As aron put it in post #92, “unanimity co-existing within multiplicity.” As Ravi Zacharias (introduced by UntoHim in post #49) put it, “Only in the Trinity is there Unity and Diversity in the Community of the Trinity!” (I copied and pasted the Ravi Zacharias quote from this link: http://wonderful-words-of-life.blogs...7/trinity.html. It also has several other key quotes from his video if anyone needs a quick reminder.)

Originally Posted by aron

unanimity co-existing within multiplicity

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Ravi Zacharias is one of the preeminent theologian/philosophers of our day. (and no I'm not saying he's the one theologian with the one theology for the age...only that he explains the trinity the clearest I've ever heard) Here is a short video of some question/answer session he had a some university. The good stuff really starts at about the 3:00 minute mark.
Due to some of the "advanced" vocabulary, it is somewhat hard to follow Zacharis. Here's a real zinger from this video: "The only way to explain unity and diversity in the effect is if you've got unity and diversity in the first cause, and only in the Trinity is there unity and diversity in the community of the Trinity".
If you're like me you will have to listen to this a few times before you get what he's saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gwoZNudCI

ii) The first sentence of the second paragraph can be illustrated (albeit not perfectly) with a stream. God the Father is “the source,” the fount or origin of the stream. God the Son is “the course,” the route the stream takes, connecting the fount with the location of the drinker. God the Spirit is “the transmission,” the action of the water from the stream entering and becoming a part of the drinker when he/she drinks. Though “the source,” “the course,” and “the transmission” are three distinct “functions” of the stream, there are not three separate streams. There is only one stream with three “supporting substances.”

This is much like what ICA quotes in post #59: “The Holy Trinity is one God in three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These Persons are distinct, but not separate, and are not three gods. They are One God because They are one in essence or nature.”

This illustration also seems to agree with the “traditional, orthodox Christian scholars and teachers” from post #37 by UntoHim: “Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit.”

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Traditional, orthodox Christian scholars and teachers have usually taught that Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit.

~~~~~Warning: tangent to follow~~~~~

(Please note the difference between “orthodox,” used above as an adjective meaning “conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true” (definition courtesy of Google), and “Eastern Orthodox Church,” used below.)

I must note: This illustration seems to agree with post #59 by ICA in that God the Father is the “Fountainhead” and the “source”; however, it also seems to disagree in that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son. To debate this difference would be a repeat of the East-West Schism, which split the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church (or the Orthodox Catholic Church), and would not, in my opinion, further the aims of this thread.

I apologize if any of the included definitions in the above two paragraphs seem to be common knowledge.

In case anyone wants more information: I think ICA covered the Eastern Orthodox view pretty well in posts #59 and #60. Here are a few links that cover the Roman Catholic view:
http://catholiceducation.org/article...ion/re0844.htm
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestio...er-and-the-son
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/jo...9851120en.html

Here is a link to Wikipedia’s article on the East-West Schism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

"The Holy Trinity is one God in three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. These Persons are distinct, but not separate, and are not three gods. They are One God because They are one in essence or nature. The Father is the unbegotten Fountainhead of Deity. The Son is eternally begotten of the Father (Jn 1:18; 3:16; 16:28). The Holy Spirit is the Helper (Jn 14:16) and Spirit of Truth (Jn 14:17; 16:13), Who proceeds from the Father (Jn 15:26)."

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

The source and unity of the Holy Trinity is the Father, from whom the Son is begotten and also from whom the Spirit proceeds. Thus, the Father is both the ground of unity of the Trinity and also of distinction. To try to comprehend unbegottenness (Father), begottenness (Son), or procession (Holy Spirit) leads to insanity, says the holy Gregory the Theologian, and so the Church approaches God in divine mystery, approaching God apophatically, being content to encounter God personally and yet realize the inadequacy of the human mind to comprehend Him.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Trinity <== The original link for the two ICA quotes above.

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

GOD THE FATHER is the fountainhead of the Holy Trinity. The Scriptures reveal that the one God is Three Persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit--eternally sharing the one divine nature. From the Father the Son is begotten before all ages and all time (Psalm 2:7; 2 Corinthians 11:31). It is also from the Father that the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds (John 15:26). Through Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit, we come to know the Father (Matthew 11:27). God the Father created all things through the Son, in the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1; 2; John 1:3; Job 33:4), and we are called to worship Him (John 4:23). The Father loves us and sent His Son to give us everlasting life (John 3:16).
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/doctrine1.aspx

~~~~~end tangent~~~~~

Sorry about that tangent. Let’s get back to the stream illustration.

Originally Posted by Igzy

When you say "Christ is in us through the representation of the Holy Spirit" that sounds good theologically, and I have little problem with it, but it really doesn't answer the question whether Christ is actually in us himself. Are two in me, or one? And can I experience the distinction between the two, or do I need to? And if I don't, doesn't the idea that Christ is in some way the Spirit carry some weight?

Hopefully the stream illustration answers the questions from post #38 by Igzy. Question 1: When you drink water from the stream, you just have one thing (water) in your system; however, that water includes “the source,” “the course,” and “the transmission.” Question 2: There isn’t really a need to “experience the distinction between” “the course” and “the transmission.” Water is water. Just enjoy slaking your thirst with it. Question 3: Just because you don’t need to “experience the distinction” doesn’t mean “the course” and “the transmission” are the same thing.

It looks like this post is quite long already, and I’ve only covered the first two paragraphs of the footnote. (The lengthy tangent didn’t help.) I’m going to go ahead and submit this for y’all to review.

Again, thank you for taking the time to read and consider what I am presenting in this post.

Until next time!

~Faith