InChristAlone's Blog

[awareness]

Okay, ICA, I think we've covered enough ground of Theosis, in the abstract.

In your posting you quote:

"the continuous process of acquiring the Holy Spirit by grace through ascetic devotion."

So let's get down to brass tacks. To truly become fully Theotic requires bringing both the mind and the body under the reign of Christ.

The mind might be easy enough by praying unceasingly. The body, however, is a whole other matter. It is said that, God speaks with a still small voice. Well the body speaks with a megaphone. A Catholic friend of mine just a couple of days ago told me that, sex trumps religion, and God.

So fanatics of Theosis have resorted to asceticism to tame the body's impulses, and to mortification of the flesh.

One way is to become a eunuch, or "cut 'em off." That'll fix the flesh ... they think. But it didn't for the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8.

And then there's the practice of mortifying flesh by flagellation, or self whipping to drawing of blood.

Or the use of a cilice, spikes strapped around the flesh.

This to me is not the "process of acquiring the Holy Spirit by grace."

So does God demand that for union with Him we have to resort to such gruesome practices?

Is that what Theosis demands?

Or are vestments, robes, and funny hats enough?

Are the leaders of the EO considered the most Theotic ... the leaders of Theosis?

[InChristAlone]

Awareness, I am sorry for my late reply. I have been busy at work.

Originally Posted by awareness

So fanatics of Theosis have resorted to asceticism to tame the body's impulses, and to mortification of the flesh.

In other words, one needs to fight one’s PASSIONS and lead a life of self-discipline. Passions are the emotions that control us. They include sexual desire, anger, envy, desire for material goods, rejection, fear and love to name a few. They are all desires that cannot be satisfied till the end.

The Apostle Paul reminds us, Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. (Gal 5:24) Jesus says, From within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these things come from within and they defile man.” (Mark 7: 21-23)

Remember the parable of the sower where Christ tells us about the seeds that were sown among the thorns? Jesus tells His disciples, “As for what fell among the thorns, they are those who, hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.” (Luke 8:14)

I don’t see anything wrong with the fight against our passions, since they block us from our goal to be united with Christ. Each of us are afflicted by certain passions that occurred after the fall of Adam and Eve. This is the disease that was passed down. Many of the passions feel natural and pleasurable to us, like gluttony, pride, lust, anger, and avarice. But in reality, these things cause us to suffer and are pulling us away from God. We cannot serve two masters Christ teaches us. (Matt. 6:24)

"What a man loves, that he certainly desires; and what he desires, that he strives to obtain."
- Abba Evagrius, Directions on Spiritual Training

”So, being the portion of the Holy God, begin to do all that pertains to holiness, running away from evil words, unclean and shameful relations, drunkenness, passions and innovations, base lusts, defiled adulteries and overweening pride. For it is said: "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble" (I Pet. 5:5). So, let us unite ourselves to them to whom grace has been given by God. Let us put on oneness of mind, let us be humble, temperate, far from any cursing or evil speech, making ourselves righteous by deeds and not by words... Let our praise be from God, and not from ourselves. God hates those who praise themselves. Let the witness of our good deeds be given by others.
(St. Clement of Rome)

“Food is not evil, but gluttony is. Childbearing is not evil, but fornication is. Money is not evil, but avarice is. Glory is not evil, but vainglory is. Indeed, there is no evil in existing things, but only in their misuse.” (St. Maximus the Confessor)

In this life, we either strive to obtain God, or we strive to obtain the things that are opposed to God and are controlling us. The Church fathers defined each of the passions and laid out the way of healing. St. John Cassion lays them out in this way:

gluttony
fornication (lust, unchastity)
love of money (coveteousness, avarice)
anger
dejection,
despondency (listlessness)
vainglory
pride

We can think of them in two types: natural and unnatural passions.

The natural passions depend on our physical nature and the maintenance of our physical being. These include our appetite for food, our fear of being harmed, and our sexual attraction to the opposite sex. These are all necessary for our preservation. They are a central part of our animal nature and common to all animals. These are not a problem unless they go beyond the need for self-preservation.

Then there are the unnatural passions. These are our natural passions that we mistakenly connect with our longing for spiritual wholeness. We continually seek happiness only to find pain on the other end. Then feeling pain or dissatisfaction, we again seek more pleasure only again to find again pain.

As pleasurable and deceptive as the passions are, we can be healed from them and find the eternal happiness that is in Christ. This process is often painful, but as St. Paul writes, "for I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (Rom. 8:18)

Originally Posted by awareness

One way is to become a eunuch, or "cut 'em off." That'll fix the flesh ... they think. But it didn't for the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. And then there's the practice of mortifying flesh by flagellation, or self whipping to drawing of blood. Or the use of a cilice, spikes strapped around the flesh.

This to me is not the "process of acquiring the Holy Spirit by grace."

I don’t think this is the "process of acquiring the Holy Spirit by grace”, either. You are talking about extreme cases in cults and sects that have nothing to do with the EO. I know some monks used to wear fetters in old times but it was rare. Probably, nobody wears fetters anymore. Anyway, they are just physical tools to tame passions. Prayer, fasting, and repentance are more important.

The Eastern Orthodox Church sees passions as the distortion of the natural tendencies. Lust is an unnatural use of sexuality. Gluttony is an unnatural use or connection with food. Greed is the unnatural attachment with the material world. Envy is an unnatural need and want for what one does not have. The passion of anger is an unnatural form of anger.

Unlike Western teaching that suggests that man is totally depraved and that his truest nature is sinful and wicked, the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church teaches that we are sick with the sickness of sin and the passions. Our true nature is to be well. To love God, to keep his commandments and live in all of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23)

The main thing is to control our passions, not to be controlled by them. They increase when they are "fed", which happens when a man capitulates to the temptation, and they whither away (slowly), when they are starved. Taming the passions is gaining freedom from our weaknesses which entice us to sin.

“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms”. (Ephesians 6:12)

Struggle, my child, for God's road is narrow and thorny; not inherently, but because of our passions. Since we want to eradicate from our heart the passions, which are like thorny roots, so that we may plant useful plants, naturally we shall toil greatly and our hands will bleed and our face will sweat. Sometimes even despair will overcome us, seeing roots and passions everywhere!

But with our hope in Christ, the Repairer of our souls, let us diligently work at clearing the earth of our heart. Patience, mourning, humility, obedience, cutting off one's will -- all these virtues help cultivate it. We must apply all our strength, and then God, seeing our labor, comes and blesses it, and thus we make progress.

Take courage, for the toil is temporary and ephemeral, whereas the reward is great in heaven. Struggle and be vigilant with your thoughts. Keep a firm hold on hope, for this shows that your house is founded on the rock -- and the rock is our Christ.

Do not feed your passions by yielding to them, so that you do not suffer pain and affliction later! Labor now, as much as you can, because otherwise, if the passions are not tended to, in time they become second nature, and then try and deal with them! Whereas now, if you fight against them lawfully, as we advise you, you will be freed and will have happiness by the grace of God.

Elder Ephraim"Counsels from the Holy Mountain"

It’s all based on the Bible and the Holy Tradition. For example, in the tradition of the Church, fasting was always one of the first disciplines taught after prayer. This was taught to us by Christ Himself. The first thing He did after His Baptism was to go into the desert to fast and pray for forty days. Since He was both fully human and fully divine, He had to tame His human passions. Why do we think that we are any better than Him and we don’t need to tame our own passions?

Originally Posted by awareness

So does God demand that for union with Him we have to resort to such gruesome practices? Is that what Theosis demands? Or are vestments, robes, and funny hats enough?

I wonder what would you say if you saw Christ and apostles in their clothes.

I have already told you. Gruesome practices have nothing to do with the Orthodox Church. They exist only in your imagination.

God wants our hearts but if they are full of desires, passions and transgressions, I don’t think we may have communion with Him.

Originally Posted by awareness

Are the leaders of the EO considered the most Theotic ... the leaders of Theosis?

Where did you get that information? You will be surprised to know that in the Eastern Orthodox church man's holiness does not depend on his rank in the hierarchy of clergy. So, no such thing as the leaders of Theosis. And no such thing as the higher one’s rank or position in the church, the closer he stands to God. Using your terminology, a layman may be considered “more Theotic” than a bishop or a patriarch. A word of an ordinary monk or priest can have more power and authority that a bishop’s word. And sometimes a layman can have more respect and authority than a patriarch. It’s his personal holiness, moral strength, and spiritual growth that gives him authority, not his position in the hierarchy.

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCnn_rgxNGE

Father Tadej was one of the ordinary Orthodox monks, neither patriarch, nor bishop. He was a very simple and humble man, full of unconditional love to God and people. In Eastern European countries, nobody knows the names of past and current Serbian bishops. But many Orthodox Christians from different countries know the name of this ordinary monk. When I say, “God is love,” I speak like a Pharisee because these words don’t mean much to me. They are not coming from my heart. It’s just some noise in the air. I don’t experience love and the living reality of God behind these words. But when Father Tadej says “God is love”, he means it. You can see that in his eyes.

If you want to have an idea what Orthodox Christian spirituality is, I’d like to recommend you this book, “Unseen Warfare”. The original title is “The Spiritual Combat” (1589). It was written by a Catholic priest, Lorenzo Scupoli. But then it was significantly revised by St. Nicodemus, and even more thoroughly revised by St. Theophan the Recluse for the Russian edition, which is the basis of the English translation. It’s a classic of Orthodox spirituality and I believe one of the most important spiritual books I have.

http://www.stnicholasdc.org/files/Or...en-Warfare.pdf

Please read the book, get some ideas and we will have more things to discuss.

[InChristAlone]

An excerpt from "Unseen Warfare" by St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain and Theophan the Recluse.

The whole purpose of Unseen Warfare is to give the Orthodox Christian teaching concerning perfection in virtue and the "unseen warfare" necessary to accomplish this: "I will tell you plainly: the greatest and most perfect thing a man may desire to attain is to come near to God and dwell in union with Him.

"There are many who say that the perfection of Christian life consists in fasts, vigils, genuflections, sleeping on bare earth and other similar austerities of the body. Others say that it consists in saying many prayers at home and in attending long services in church. And there are others who think that our perfection consists entirely in mental prayer, solitude, seclusion and silence. But the majority limit perfection to a strict observance of all the rules and practices laid down by the statutes, falling into no excess or deficiency, but preserving a golden moderation. Yet all these virtues do not by themselves constitute the Christian perfection we are seeking, but are only a means and a method for acquiring it.

"You must learn that perfection consists in nothing but coming near to God and union with Him, as was said in the beginning. With this is connected a heartfelt realization of the goodness and greatness of God, together with the consciousness of our own nothingness and our proneness to every evil .... This is the law of love, inscribed by the finger of God Himself in the hearts of His true servants ! This is the renunciation of ourselves that God demands of us! This is the blessed yoke of Jesus Christ and His burden that is light! This is the submission to God's will, which our Redeemer and Teacher demands from us both by His word and by His example!

"Do you now see what all this means, brother? I presume that you are longing to reach the height of such perfection. Blessed be your zeal! But prepare yourself also for labor, sweat and struggle from your first steps on the path. You must sacrifice everything to God and do only His will. Yet you will meet in yourself as many wills as you have powers and wants. Therefore, to reach your desired aim, it is first of all necessary to stifle your own wills and finally to extinguish and kill them altogether. And in order to succeed in this, you must constantly oppose all evil in yourself and urge yourself towards good. In other words, you must ceaselessly fight against yourself and against everything that panders to your own wills, that incites and supports them. So prepare yourself for this struggle and this warfare and know that the crown--attainment of your desired aim--is given to none except to the valiant among warriors and wrestlers.

"But if this is the hardest of all wars... victory in it is the most glorious of all .... If you really desire to be victorious in this unseen warfare and be rewarded with a crown, you must plant in your heart the following four dispositions and spiritual activities, as it were arming yourself with invisible weapons, the most trustworthy and unconquerable of all, namely:

a) never rely on yourself in anything;
b) bear always in your heart a perfect and all-daring trust in God alone;
c) strive without ceasing; and
d) remain constantly in prayer.

"You must know that progress on the path of spiritual life differs greatly from an ordinary journey on earth. If a traveler stops on his ordinary journey, he loses nothing of the way already covered; but if a traveler on the path of virtue stops in his spiritual progress, he loses much of the virtues previously acquired .... In an ordinary journey, the further the traveler proceeds, the more tired he becomes; but on the way of spiritual life the longer a man travels, reaching forth unto those things which are before, the greater the strength and power he acquires for his further progress."

http://www.stnicholasdc.org/files/Or...en-Warfare.pdf

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

http://www.stnicholasdc.org/files/Or...en-Warfare.pdf

Please read the book, get some ideas and we will have more things to discuss.

Large parts of the Philokalia have been translated into English; however, it must be said that these writings are not for the beginner, nor even for the average Orthodox Christian. There is even a danger in their being read "out of season" and without proper guidance.

What if I'm not worthy, or it's the wrong season ... and then danger, danger, danger?

[awareness]

Another quote:

"But if this is the hardest of all wars... victory in it is the most glorious of all .... If you really desire to be victorious in this
unseen warfare and be rewarded with a crown, you must plant in your heart the following four dispositions and spiritual
activities, as it were arming yourself with invisible weapons, the most trustworthy and unconquerable of all, namely:

a) never rely on yourself in anything;Unseen Warfare
b) bear always in your heart a perfect and all-daring trust in God alone;
c) strive without ceasing; and
d) remain constantly in prayer.

So we don't rely on ourself ... but we "bear," "strive," and "remain." Sounds paradoxical to me.

Why does God require paradox to come close to him? Is He playing games with us?

And while I'm at it, if Theosis requires silly hats and habits, count me out.

And what's a Schemamonk?

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

Another quote:

So we don't rely on ourself ... but we "bear," "strive," and "remain." Sounds paradoxical to me.

Why does God require paradox to come close to him? Is He playing games with us?

And while I'm at it, if Theosis requires silly hats and habits, count me out.

And what's a Schemamonk?

Another paradox is that we are saved by grace but we still have to cooperate with God and fight our passions. Probably, Christianity is a religion of paradoxes: the cross, a symbol of death, that becomes the symbol of life, or God becomes man or a virgin gives birth, or God who loves the world, and man who becomes first only by making himself last.

However, in that context, the meaning of "never rely on yourself in anything" is quite clear. The explanation must be in the same or next chapter where St. Nikodemos and Theophan the Recluse explain what it means. If I am not mistaken, the main point is "rely on God only", i.e. always remember the Lord in everything you do, pray unceasingly, and ask Him for guidance. In other words, don't say, "I am so great, therefore I can make it by myself." Say "Lord, I can't achieve anything without You. Please help me." And when you attain something, especially spiritual gifts, don't be proud, saying, "I achieved it thanks to my own strength, endurance, and wisdom". Always remember the words: "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in Me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing". (John 15:5)

I don't think that God is playing with us. Probably, it's our mind that is so small and limited that we can't really see how weak we are. I like the words of Fr Seraphim Rose (he was an American convert who became a monk) which he addressed to the Orthodox Christians. I think Fr Seraphim's words can be applied to all Christian believers: "Orthodox Christians! Hold fast to the grace which you have; never let it become a matter of habit; never measure it by merely human standards or expect it to be logical or comprehensible to those who understand nothing higher than what is human…"

In our context, I would say that we should not measure God by our human standards or expect it to be logical or comprehensible to us who understand nothing higher than what is human. We know that God is love. And He loves us so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins. What more or higher than that do we need to know to understand God better?

I think one of the dangers for us human beings is to believe in God that suits us the most. We are seeking God, maybe even find Him but if He doesn't correspond to our own imagination, or our own image, then we create our own "god". This "god" may fit us like a glove and we may be faithful to him till the end of our days but at the end we may hear 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:23) You know, I wanted to mention WL when I was talking about the glove and god that we create for ourselves. But then I thought that it was very stupid of me. I don't need to read all those Bible Studies, Crystallizations, and Morning Revivals to know that God is love but I sill have my own personal imagination about Him. I imagine Him so merciful that I hope that He will save and forgive me even if I still continue to live a sinful life. Who is playing with who? God - with me or I - with Him? Then how about: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven". (Matthew 7:21) If I ask myself "Do I do the will of the Father? Do I fulfil commandments, fight my passions, love God and my neighbor?" then there can be only one sincere answer: "Not really" -- and if I take out the last word from my answer; the outcome can't be clearer than that. Sorry, I have carried away again. I think I could blame WL for the lack of love, strength, and faithfulness in me, but I must admit that it's all my fault. God is always here. And no man can deprive us from Him. And no man can stop us from doing His will. But I am still weak. That's why I want to get back to my EO background. Will the EO church give me strength? I believe it is God who gives it, not a church. In the church but through the Holy Spirit. Anyway, I feel the EO church gives me a good guidance and shows a path to the Lord. At least I see it clearly in the books of St. Nikodemos, Theophan the Recluse, Alexander Schmemann, and Anthony Bloom. I don't want to call myself a "prodigal son"; to me, it sounds like a title. I am just a sinner who wants to get back home.

Ok, let's change the topic. I am not very familiar with monastic ranks. I just know that schemamonk can be an ordinary monk; it depends on the vows he takes. Schemamonk must be one of the most ascetic.

BTW, I downloaded an EO application for my smartphone. It's mainly about prayers. But there is some info about the church and clergy. That info supports my knowledge about the EO clergy: "Clergy are those in the Eastern Orthodox Church who have been called by God to fulfill specific functions of service and leadership in the church. Clergy are not inherently higher or better than laity in the Church, who are also ordained to a specific ministry as the Royal priesthood of Christ." Actually, I have read about some significant differences between the EOC and the RCC clergy. For example, If I am not mistaken, in the RCC, a priest is always a priest, even if he is retired. In the EOC, if a priest is retired, he is no more a priest but a layman.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ss.prayersfree

PS About Eastern Orthodox monasticism:

Orthodox monasticism is inconceivable without its loftiest step - the Great Schema. The Holy Fathers of the Church regarded it as the culmination of monastic life. Monks find in the Great Schema the complete expression of their vocation - the attainment of the Gospel ideal of holy perfection. A man ascends to this level only gradually - according to his strengththrough life-long effort.

Monastic life elevates a monk to spiritual perfection in the spirit of Christ's love and, by living in this love, bears light and spiritual warmth to the world.

By withdrawing from the world, a monk does not express contempt for it, but, on the contrary, acquires a perfect love for the world, a pure love in Christ which is alien to worldly passions. By turning away from vanity the monk strives to perceive himsell and his impotence, and to fortify himself spiritually through prayer to God.

There are three monastic ranks: the Rassaphore, the Stavrophore, and the Schema-Monk (or Schema-Nun). Each of the three degrees represents an increased level of asceticism. In the early days of monasticism, there was only one level—the Great Schema. In the Russian tradition, whose abbot feels they have reached a high level of spiritual excellence reach the final stage, called the Great Schema.

A Schemamonk is a rare step taken in monastic life and is seldom approved by the Abbot or Bishop. The Schema, goes beyond carrying the Cross of Christ. Like our Lord Jesus Christ, he must be willing to surrender his life to totally save peoples souls. He must in fact be willing to be nailed to the cross he has been carrying. The Schemamonk is in essence, an Elder among the monastic, He is a monk who has aspired to a spiritual level that transcends worldly desires. It is a life of constant prayer. He is a walking icon of our Lord Jesus Christ. A Schemamonk is sought after by religious of all ranks, monastic and lay people for spiritual advice and comfort, as well as other Spiritual and religious matters. The Schemamonk will again take a new Name in Christ to show he has totally given up his worldly life.

Monastic Ranks

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Monastic_Ranks
http://sttikhonsmonastery.org/article.php?id=25

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

What if I'm not worthy, or it's the wrong season ... and then danger, danger, danger?

You are worthy. The danger may come if you start building fantasies and imaginings about your achievements before you have attained them. The practice must be done with humility. Arrogance and pride can lead to self-delusion. For example, you may have some visions of light, angels, or Jesus, or pray longer than anyone else and therefore start thinking that you are better than others, while your visions are just illusions and your prayer is a vain repetition. So one needs a spiritual guide or director that may help him not to be fall into temptations.

In order not to fall into illusion, while practicing inner prayer, do not permit yourself any concepts, images, or visions. For vivid imaginings, darting to and fro, and flights of fancy do not cease even when the mind stands in the heart and recites prayer: and no one is able to rule over them, except those who have attained perfection by the grace of the Holy Spirit, and who have acquired stability of mind through Jesus Christ.

St Theophan the Recluse

Some other errors:

http://livingorthodoxfaith.blogspot....us-prayer.html

More about the Jesus prayer:

http://www.orthodoxa.org/GB/orthodox...usprayerGB.htm
http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodo...e-jesus-prayer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Prayer
http://www.svots.edu/content/rossi-jesus-prayer
http://www.orthodoxprayer.org/Jesus%20Prayer.html
http://www.pravmir.com/the-jesus-prayer-3/
http://www.antiochian.org/node/25485
http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/ignaty_jesus.aspx

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

So one needs a spiritual guide or director that may help him not to be fall into temptations.

"In order not to fall into illusion, while practicing inner prayer, do not permit yourself any concepts, images, or visions."
St Theophan the Recluse

Sure sounds eastern to me ... with master/student. Must be Hindu influenced. Even prayer is instructed the same as quieting the mind in Hindu meditation.

These are not bad practices ... Hindu or not.

But I'm broken. I can't do the master/student/devotee thing ... either as the student or the master. I don't abide such systems or arrangements. If anything I'm a pointer, at the real master ... not of flesh.

We believers seem weak to me, to require a leader in the flesh, like Nee or Lee. It seems a fleshy need to me ... and not truly spiritual ... a falling short ... like arrows when shot that can't reach the target.

But then again, as the story goes, God became flesh.

But who knows the Logos? Methinks the Logos has its arms open to all who open and turn their hearts ... even if they don't know what they are doing ... and has been so active since its inception ... being the creative force of everything ... even this moment, right here and now.

But like I say, I'm broken. So don't listen to me.

And thanks for this discussion ICA. Really great stuff. Can't keep up. Me brain is overwhelmed with all the info, homework, and study.

Are you trying to convert me to EO?

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sure sounds eastern to me ... with master/student. Must be Hindu influenced.

You look at Christianity through eyes of a man who lives in America in the 21st century. But don't forget that Christ and His apostles have never been American citizens. Besides, Christianity did not start in Europe with Luther. It began in the Middle East in the 1st century AD and it has a long and rich tradition.

Originally Posted by awareness

Are you trying to convert me to EO?

No. Do I need to explain why? First, I don’t see a reason to do that. Second, I believe it’s not a fruitful work. It’s a waste of time to convert someone who doesn’t share your experience. I have two best friends who are atheists. I can talk to them about God but if they don’t feel any reality behind my words, then my talk is useless. They can’t prove me that there is no God. And I can’t prove them that there is God. Our views are based on different experiences. Third, doing is better than saying. To me, conversion is not about what someone says but what he does. And I do nothing inspiring. So I just want to help you clear stereotypes about the EO Christians and convert nobody but myself to the Eastern Orthodox beliefs and practices.

Anyway, Awareness, thanks. It was nice talking to you. God bless.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

You look at Christianity through eyes of a man who lives in America in the 21st century. But don't forget that Christ and His apostles have never been American citizens. Besides, Christianity did not start in Europe with Luther. It began in the Middle East in the 1st century AD and it has a long and rich tradition.


No. Do I need to explain why? First, I don’t see a reason to do that. Second, I believe it’s not a fruitful work. It’s a waste of time to convert someone who doesn’t share your experience. I have two best friends who are atheists. I can talk to them about God but if they don’t feel any reality behind my words, then my talk is useless. They can’t prove me that there is no God. And I can’t prove them that there is God. Our views are based on different experiences. Third, doing is better than saying. To me, conversion is not about what someone says but what he does. And I do nothing inspiring. So I just want to help you clear stereotypes about the EO Christians and convert nobody but myself to the Eastern Orthodox beliefs and practices.

Anyway, Awareness, thanks. It was nice talking to you. God bless.

Excuse me, but unless you are killing yer blog, I don't think we're done talking.

Likely there will be more to discuss ... you are right EO is interesting.

And I didn't intend to put the brakes on.