InChristAlone's Blog

[InChristAlone]

I have many friends who are atheists. They are very nice people, but there is some emptiness, void in their lives. They also feel that but don’t realize why. When we talk about God, they always use their logic, philosophy, and reasoning to prove that there is no God. And then I don’t have much to say. Once on a Christian radio station, I heard this piece of advice, “When people say that there is no God, don’t argue with them. They are right. They speak from their experience. They are too preoccupied with other things and they don’t want God to enter their hearts, therefore God doesn’t exist for them.” A few days ago I read an article that supports the same idea of not arguing with atheists. I’d like to share a few excerpts:

How can you prove that God exists?

http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/proof.htm

Personally, I never engage in arguments with atheists etc. It is waste of time and energy, sometimes doing more harm than good through exciting passions. The point is this:

Atheists argue from reason/intellect. We argue from life, living experience, from the heart moulded by daily life and prayer. So we have two completely different approaches. It could even be said that the fact that for us there is NO rational proof of the existence of God is proof that He exists. For us, He is Creator and we are creation. How can you expect the created human reason to understand the Creator, when our knowledge (so-called science/scientia) of the Creation is still minute, even though it increases daily? If we could understand God, it would be proof that He is a manmade myth. Only the real God is beyond human reason, meta-rational (though not irrational).

As you know, this whole concept of proving God’s existence really begins in the late eleventh century, with the rationalism of Anselm of Canterbury, ‘the father of scholasticism’. So their view is rationalistic, ours is experiential. The curious thing is that atheists and ‘anselmians’ alike argue in exactly the same way, with the same tool of the reason, putting themselves outside the universal and instinctive approach to religion through the millennia, which is ‘there must be something out there’. Anselm and his followers (rationalists, atheists or otherwise) represent an Edenic fall from knowledge, an abandonment of the eternal and immortal knowledge experienced through and imparted to the heart, in favour of the tiny, limited reason. (‘There are more things in heaven and earth…’).

Atheism is irrational, because if you can’t prove that God exists, you can’t disprove it either. Atheists do not argue from theological reasons (they cannot know what real theology is, because they do not pray and, as it is said, only those who pray are theologians), they argue from psychological or sociological reasons. Thus, the man who was molested as a child by some pedophile dressed as a priest is an ‘atheist’ for psychological reasons. The Spanish or Russian peasant who became an ‘atheist’ 80 or 100 years ago because he saw some hypocritical and hard-hearted bandit dressed as a priest, taking the Church’s money and spending it on himself, is an ‘atheist’ for sociological reasons. I remember someone 40 years ago saying to me that ‘religion is a medieval con-trick’. I still thoroughly agree with him, providing that we qualify it with three words - religion ‘in his experience’ is a medieval con-trick. But, of course, this was not religion lived and experienced; he was talking about religion deformed into a manmade institution, which, of course, is not religion at all.

So, I would simply answer as below to modern, brainwashed, British children who ask the inherently atheist question ‘How can we prove that God exists’ (and it is atheist, because it presupposes that He does not exist, because throughout history, except in modern Western civilisation, everyone has always, automatically believed that God exists - the only Areopagitic question was the identity of that God):

It is impossible to prove that God exists or does not exist, because God the Creator is beyond the petty rational proofs of the creation. Live your life a little, experience, and then you will decide.

Of course, it is also true that if we continue to live in impurity and therefore will have no experience, then we will not find faith in God. (‘Seek and ye shall find’). Atheism can be defined as the result of not having a way of life according to the commandments – loving God and loving our neighbour as ourselves. And love means a way of life, it is not some purely passive, verbal agreement about ‘sentimental’ love. In other words, our perception of God depends on our way of life.

Only the pure in heart shall see God and it is the dogmas of the Church, which were revealed to the Fathers, i.e. to those who are pure in heart. And what are the dogmas of the Church? They are the revelations of God about Himself, given to man to express in human language. For behold, Thou hast loved truth; the hidden and secret things of Thy wisdom hast Thou revealed to me (Ps. 50, 8).

The reason is the tool of pagans, inherited from pagan (so-called ‘classical’) Rome and Greece. That is why the Apostle Paul wrote so harshly of ‘the Greeks’ (‘unto the Greeks foolishness’). Philosophy is what happens when people stoppraying to God (i.e, doing theology, theologising) and startplaying with God (with the idea/hobby of) God. Philosophy is the history of the Western Middle Ages (1000-1500). Secularism is the history of the Western Modern Ages (1500-2000). Atheism is the history of the post-Modern Ages (2000-).

In a word, if you ask a false question, you cannot get a right answer because the way the question (does God exist) is posed, actually excludes the right answer. We Orthodox Christians, members of the Church of Christ, do not so much believe in God, we know Him and He lives in our hearts like a flame, sometimes flickering according to our human weaknesses, sometimes burning brightly, according to our repentance.

Archpriest Andrew Phillips
November 2010

http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/proof.htm

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

How can you prove that God exists?

http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/proof.htm

Even the animals sense the presence of good or evil. We can say therefore that animals believe in God.

That one got a laugh out of me.

Atheists and theists have the same problem. Neither can empirically prove their point.

[InChristAlone]

Originally Posted by awareness

That one got a laugh out of me.

I agree. That was non sequitur. I can admit that dogs can sense good and evil, friend and foe, but this doesn't prove that they believe in God.

[InChristAlone]

"Prayer is by nature a dialog and a union with God. Its effect is to hold the world together. It achieves a reconciliation with God." St. John Climacus

I have found five English translations of the prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian. I like this prayer but I can't choose the best English version, since English is not my native language. Brother Harold and brother Mike, could you help me, please?

As Ephrem wrote solely in Syriac, it is almost certain that the prayer was not written by him. However, the Prayer of Saint Ephrem appears to belong to the large body of Greek penitential and ascetic literature that was composed in Ephrem's name during the century after his death in 373. (Wiki)

Translation #1

O Lord and Master of my life, grant not unto me a spirit of idleness, of discouragement, of lust for power, and of vain speaking.
But bestow upon me, Thy servant, the spirit of chastity, of meekness, of patience, and of love.
Yea, O Lord and King, grant that I may perceive my own transgressions, and judge not my brother, for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen.

Translation #2

O Lord and Master of my life, Take from me the spirit of sloth, despair, lust of power and idle talk.
But give rather the spirit of chastity, meekness of mind, patience and love to Thy servant.
Yea O Lord and King, grant me to see my own transgressions and not to judge my brother, for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen.

Translation #3

O Lord and Master of my life, give me not the spirit of sloth, meddling, lust for power and idle talk.
But grant unto me, Thy servant, a spirit of chastity (integrity), humility, patience and love.
Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see mine own faults and not to judge my brother. For blessed art Thou unto the ages of ages. Amen.

Translation # 4

O LORD, Master of my life, grant that I may not be infected with the spirit of slothfulness and inquisitiveness, with the spirit of ambition and vain talking.
Grant instead to me, your servant, the spirit of purity and of humility, the spirit of patience and neighborly love.
O Lord and King, grant me the grace of being aware of my sins and of not thinking evil of those of my brethren. For you are blessed, now and ever, and forever. Amen.

Translation # 5

O Lord and Master of my life, a spirit of idleness, despondency, ambition, and idle talking give me not.
But rather a spirit of chastity, humble-mindedness, patience, and love bestow upon me Thy servant.
Yea, O Lord and King, grant me to see my failings and not condemn my brother; for blessed art Thou unto the ages of ages. Amen.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by InChristAlone

"Prayer is by nature a dialog and a union with God. Its effect is to hold the world together. It achieves a reconciliation with God." St. John Climacus

I pray all day, like breathing. Couldn't get on without it.

Originally Posted by ICA

I have found five English translations of the prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian. I like this prayer but I can't choose the best English version, since English is not my native language. Brother Harold and brother Mike, could you help me, please?

Well I say, six of one, half a dozen of another.

Originally Posted by Prayer

O Lord and Master of my life, grant not unto me a spirit of idleness, of discouragement, of lust for power, and of vain speaking.
But bestow upon me, Thy servant, the spirit of chastity, of meekness, of patience, and of love.
Yea, O Lord and King, grant that I may perceive my own transgressions, and judge not my brother, for blessed art Thou unto ages of ages. Amen.

In other words, make me a supernatural being.

Or possibly not even a real prayer. But a prayer->sermon ... like so many prayers spoken in public, and in church meetings.

[InChristAlone]

Thanks, Awareness.

Originally Posted by awareness

In other words, make me a supernatural being.

In other words, make me like Christ.

The words become prayer when, speaking to the Lord, our words come from our heart and we understand every word we say, i.e. our mind and heart receive the content of the prayers that we read.

I like what St Theophan the Recluse said about prayer:

"The work of prayer is the first work in Christian life.

Let me recall a wise custom of the ancient Holy Fathers: when greeting each other, they did not ask about health or anything else, but rather about prayer, saying "How is your prayer?" The activity of prayer was considered by them to a be a sign of the spiritual life, and they called it the breath of the spirit. If the body has breath, it lives; if breathing stops, life comes to an end. So it is with the spirit.

If there is prayer, the soul lives; without prayer, there is no spiritual life.

However, not every act of prayer is prayer. Standing at home before your icons, or here in church, and venerating them is not yet prayer, but the "equipment" of prayer. Reading prayers either by heart or from a book, or hearing someone else read them is not yet prayer, but only a tool or method for obtaining and awakening prayer.

Prayer itself is the piercing of our hearts by pious feelings towards God, one after another – feelings of humility, submission, gratitude, doxology, forgiveness, heart-felt prostration, brokenness, conformity to the will of God, etc. All of our effort should be directed so that during our prayers, these feelings and feelings like them should fill our souls, so that the heart would not be empty when the lips are reading the prayers, or when the ears hear and the body bows in prostrations, but that there would be some qualitative feeling, some striving toward God.

When these feelings are present, our praying is prayer, and when they are absent, it is not yet prayer."