"That They May Be One, Even As We Are One" - by TAS

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, it may seem strange to say, but I am so happy that my fear of the Lord is returning! A proper, scriptural, healthy, balanced fear of the Lord - not the fear of a man, nor the fear of a ministry, nor the fear of a group of churches, but the fear OF THE LORD.

In Message Six TAS brings up the very sobering meaning behind our Lord’s reply to His disciples in Matthew 13:10-17. The Lord’s disciples came to Him and asked Him why He was speaking to the crowds in parables. Our Lord’s reply mentions some extremely serious matters . There is the matter of “from him who has not, from him shall be taken away even what he has” (v. 12b). Looking at the end of the next verse, we see that what is taken away is the ability to understand. This is the loss of spiritual understanding! This terrible loss is confirmed by the frightening verses from Isaiah quoted in vv.14-15.

I really appreciate that TAS did not use these verses to threaten people against forsaking his ministry or forsaking those churches which received his ministry. TAS was not concerned about Christians abandoning him; rather, he was very concerned about Christians abandoning the Lord, His Word, and His people. Like the apostle Paul, TAS was jealous over those listening to him speak for the Lord’s sake.

Excerpts from TAS’s speaking in Message Six:

“He [the Lord Jesus] takes the terrible passage from the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, "By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall in no wise perceive; for this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed." The prophet had given the Word of God to these people. The Word of God was read in their hearing every day and every week. But they had not got a heart for the Word of God. They did not respond from their hearts. So the Lord brought the judgment upon them. He says, 'You have closed your eyes; I will close them. You have closed your ears; I will close them. When you want to see, you will not be able to see. When you want to hear, you will not be able to hear. I will take away from you the power of spiritual understanding.' There is a warning for us here . . . Yes, you know about the Lord Jesus. You know what is in the Bible. But you are not going on with the Lord . . . You are not just rejoicing in the Word of God. You are not really a living Christian, taking your place amongst the people of God, coming to the help of the Lord against the mighty evil forces . . . Something is happening to you, that which you had is being taken away. You are losing the power of spiritual understanding. You are losing the power of spiritual sight and spiritual hearing. You see all that is going on amongst the Lord's people, but it does not interest you very much. You hear all that is said in the meeting, or in the home, but it does not matter to you. There are a lot of Christians like that. And this very thing is happening to them. They are in danger of losing all SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING. And, therefore, they are losing all the wonderful meaning of the Kingdom of God, of sharing the Kingdom with God's Son, of reigning together with Him in glory.”

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, while I am very sobered by both the Scripture verses referenced in message six and by brother TAS’s speaking based upon these verses, I am also very thankful that the door to repentance is always left open to us in this lifetime. When our heart hardens and ceases to be “good earth”, it really does seem that the things of the Lord become less and less real to us over time. While this is going on, however, our dear Lord is doing all He can to draw us and cause us to soften our heart and return to Him.

I think we all have had experiences like this. I know that when I came to realize how the LC was producing a proud, arrogant, Laodicean heart in me, besides wanting to flee the LC, the temptation was there to completely give up on the Lord as well. I gave in to this temptation for a good while and the experiences described by TAS in this message began to happen to me. As my heart turned harder and harder towards the Lord, the things of the Lord (especially His presence and His rhema words) became less and less real to me. Things that had been such a great encouragement to me and had really watered my inward man in the past now meant nothing. It was becoming harder and harder to receive any kind of spiritual fellowship. Into this dark, downward spiral, however, He provided a way out - Praise Him! Through genuine repentance, my hard heart really was “plowed up” and made soft once again! This is how hardened hearts can once more become the “good earth” for the “seed” to grow and bear fruit. With soft hearts turned back to the Lord, we really can regain our spiritual sight and we really can regain our spiritual understanding. Hallelujah!

How I appreciate the fact that after so much sober and serious speaking, TAS’s closing words in message six are a call for an honest return to the Lord:

“Ask the Lord to give you spiritual understanding. And if you do not understand, do not say, 'I do not understand.' Go to the Lord and say, 'Lord, make me to understand.' 'Open the eyes of my heart.' That will show that you mean business with the Lord. And if you mean business with the Lord, the Lord will mean business with you.”

[Paul Cox]

Consider this possibility, saints:

There was something brewing in Witness Lee's heart all the way back in China. It took a while for it to come out, but eventually it did. Without the condition of his heart being such as it was, what happened in the eighties never would have taken place.

Things were good, to an extent in the seventies. But remember, there were large numbers of older saints who had been with Watchman Nee in China. I believe some of that blessing from China was still on the group. It took a while for the things in Witness Lee's heart to become manifest, and eventually all that was good in the group got usurped by 100% Witness Lee.

Now his survivors have taken things to an absolute extreme, and have long ago gone past the point of no return.

I entered the Local Church in the early seventies. The church life was enjoyable. But there were warning signs all over the place. Of course, there weren’t HWMRs back then, but I certainly remember being on the list to automatically get the life study messages in a little manila envelope every week.

Everybody reading the same thing, speaking the same thing, and doing the same thing was already well in place. And, even then whenever Witness Lee opened his mouth that would start a herd stampede in another direction. It was the “flow.”

I always likened it unto a football drill that many of us are familiar with: Everybody in full gear under the hot blazing sun, and high stepping in place. The coach raises the football and moves it to the right. Off goes the group prancing in that direction. Then he moves the football in the opposite direction and off the team goes in that direction. That was how the Local Churches on the earth reacted to the different “flows” proceeding out of Witness Lee’s mouth, even back in the seventies.

The intent was the same; the method has changed over the decades. But the end result is just to have a group of people who are in complete uniformity, with little possibility that many would escape the plantation.

Roger

PS KisstheSon,
Thanks for posting the riches from the ministry of TAS. For all the years in the Local Church we were discouraged from getting into his ministry. Come to find out, much of what Lee was teaching had originally come from TAS.

His audio messages are also available at
www.Christiantapeministry.com
The ministry is called something else now, but that ad

[kisstheson]

Amen, dear brother Roger. The scenario you presented definitely registers with me. Actually, it really, really, saddens me; but, I must admit that it definitely rings true. Oneness with Christ, obedience to Christ, following Christ wherever He might go – all that was gradually replaced by oneness with Lee and his ministry, obedience to Lee and his ministry, and “being absolute” in following Lee and his ministry. As this was happening, our God, who by His own Word is a jealous God, had to gradually withdraw His blessing.

The ones who had been with Watchman Nee would have been much less prone to over-exalting a minster of Christ. They knew that to have more and more of Christ, there needs to be less and less that is of men. Hence, as you say, they were a big factor in a portion of blessing remaining with the LC in the 1970’s. As these older ones gradually passed away and newer, spiritually-inexperienced, ones arose who never knew WN, the excellent teachings in the LC and the teacher who taught them became more and more our focus. All the while we ignored the many warning signs that surrounded us.

As you say, it took time for what was in WL’s heart to become fully manifest. Going through these marvelous messages spoken by TAS, it is becoming clearer and clearer to me that the times TAS and WL had together in the late 1950’s were an attempt by God Himself to bring some honest, frank, faithful fellowship to WL in order to balance him. With WN in prison, it seems that TAS was the last one on the whole earth who could have been used by the Lord to balance WL. Sadly, WL refused this balance and after this it was not long before WL was also estranged from the three other co-workers of WN who had been sent out of Mainland China (Simon Meek, Faithful Luke, and Stephen Kaung). The rest of the story, of course, is history that all of us know too well.

How prone we all are to think so highly of ourselves! How very sobering this all should be to us! One of the great services that TAS’s ministry can perform for us, if we are open to it, is to show us how important it is for human beings to take their hands off the things of God.

[kisstheson]

Dear brother Roger,

Thank you so much for your “PS” in your previous post. It really saddens me that the brothers and the sisters in the LC were discouraged from reading TAS’s ministry for all those years. A lot of riches were missed and a lot of healthy spiritual balance was missed. I just can’t find anywhere in the New Testament where we are exhorted to limit ourselves to the ministry of only one minister of Christ.

TAS definitely had a lot of important things to say. But even beyond the rich details within TAS’s speaking, just being open to TAS’s ministry would have been a healthy humbling to those in the LC, as they would have seen clear evidence of the Lord's moving in places outside of the LC. By reading TAS’s ministry, they would have seen the precious work our Lord carried out through TAS and those with him. In addition, TAS’s ministry would have pointed them to others like Bakht Singh, Stephen Kaung, etc., where the Lord was also working in a fresh, up-to-date, way.

Thank you, dear brother, for the web-site link. I have always thought of christiantapeministry.com as the site for Stephen Kaung/Lance Lambert/Christian Chen. This site actually contains 318 TAS messages! Another pleasant surprise is that this site contains five messages from John Ingalls.

For those who would like to be able to view the text of the messages that I am referring to in this thread, please visit austin-sparks.net and look for the messages spoken in 1964 under the series title “"That They May All Be One, Even As We Are One". To directly link to the messages in Volume 1 (Message 1 - 22) of this series, click here.

[kisstheson]

What confusion is brought into the Lord’s testimony when men make themselves out to be so important! Message Seven is full of TAS’s hard-won wisdom regarding the need for men to humble themselves before God and to stop putting their self-important human hands all over the things of God. This message is very convicting and is certainly “solid food”. I find myself very humbled by this message.

Dear brother Roger’s last post is a perfect lead-in to a discussion of message seven. Roger mentioned the older saints who had been with WN in China and the blessing that was still on them. I am always so impressed that Watchman Nee's former co-workers all testify that WN never allowed the brothers and sisters in China in exalt him. In fact, WN hardly allowed them to even mention his name! James Chen, a former co-worker of WN who was led to the Lord by WN in 1926 and who received a lot of help from WN regarding loving the Lord and seeking the Lord, said this in the book The Passing of the Torch:

“If Watchman Nee were here and if he heard me mentioning his name, he would be very unhappy. I feel I am saying too much about him. He never wanted anyone to exalt Watchman Nee more than Christ. He felt very deeply that his name should never take up even a little bit of the attention due the name of Jesus Christ. The Christians and the churches all over China, although they respected Watchman Nee, seldom mentioned his name – but they exalted Christ. Brother Watchman Nee was not our head, but Jesus Christ was our Head.”

TAS also refused to allow others to exalt him, and, like WN, always wanted the focus to be on Christ and Christ alone. TAS opened his heart and spoke regarding this matter in message seven:

“Sometimes I go to some places. I am introduced to the congregation. The one who introduces me says, 'Mr. Austin-Sparks, the great Bible teacher from Europe.' And then a lot of other things. My heart sinks; I feel ill. I have to stand up and say, 'Do not take any notice of that. I am nobody. The Lord is everything.' Man has no place in the House of God. We come into God's House in our own importance, in our own strength, putting our hands on things, our minds on things, our wills on things. We are changing the whole nature of the House of God. The Lord will be limited there. Indeed, He will not have a clear way for Himself. This Jesus Who was the very presence of God says, ‘I am meek and lowly in heart.’”

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, the problem with making ourselves out to be so important is that it leads us to an attitude where we think we are qualified to bring the things of God under our own control. We think we are qualified to take the deep, mysterious, matters of the Spirit and force them into “statements of faith” and formal creeds. We think we are qualified to take the testimonies of the living practices found in the New Testament assemblies and force them into set forms and rituals.

TAS has much to say regarding this matter in message seven. His two main points are these: Firstly, we bring nothing but trouble and confusion into the assemblies of God’s people whenever we try to bring the things of God under our own control. Trouble and confusion are always the result of man putting his hands into the things of God. Secondly, because of our tendency to try to bring the things of God under our own control, God in His mercy has to come in to weaken us and to make us know our own weakness. He has to bring us to the point where we glory in our weaknesses and infirmities, so that the power of Christ (and not our own power!) can rest upon us.

Excerpts from TAS’s speaking in message seven:

“Somehow or other man must put his hand on things . . . That is, to bring the things of God into his own control. We use our hands in order to bring things under our control. But when it comes to the things of God, that is a wrong use of our hands . . . Christianity began in a simple beautiful living way. It was all in the life and the liberty of the Spirit. And while the Holy Spirit has His hand on things, everything is all right . . . Man has brought it under his control. That is always a dangerous and a disastrous thing. The Lord's attitude is like this. 'I will keep My hands off until you take yours off. While your hands are on My things I will leave it to you.' And things go from bad to worse. Now I think we all recognize that. The more a man or any man puts their hands on the things of God, the more confusion there is. When man brings the things of God under his control and dominates them, that means trouble. That is why the Lord so often had to weaken man and make man know his own weakness.”

[Toledo]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

It really saddens me that the brothers and the sisters in the LC were discouraged from reading TAS’s ministry for all those years. A lot of riches were missed and a lot of healthy spiritual balance was missed. I just can’t find anywhere in the New Testament where we are exhorted to limit ourselves to the ministry of only one minister of Christ.

Once again, I am surprised (and frankly shocked) by many of the testimonies I read on this forum. I agree that it is saddening to learn that saints were discouraged from reading brother Sparks's ministry. I had not realized such restrictive practices were carried out in many places.

Although there have been many abuses in my church life experience, at least I was fortunate enough to serve near Jim Reetzche (sp?) of Chicago, who always encouraged us to read many other authors besides WL. It was Jim who pointed me to the works of TAS. He consistently endeavored to get us to read widely, and would not let us be limited to only one man's ministry.

Alas, now that he is getting old and is in poor health, he seems to have lost the boldness to continue in the way he set us on, and has allowed himself to be subdued by the dear Blended ones...

[kisstheson]

Blessed are you, dear brother Toledo! I remember visiting the bookstore in Chicago on West Irving Park Road some years ago and thinking “the mindset here is definitely broader and more inclusive than the mindset in my region”. When I would visit the church web sites for localities like Cleveland, OH ,and Westland, MI, and I saw all the positive mentions and links to other ministries besides LSM, this thought would be confirmed.

The mindset in my region was very set – “Sure, there are helpful things in the writings of others besides Nee and Lee; but, be assured that brothers Nee and Lee have already gone through these writings and extracted everything that is helpful in them. You waste your time when you read any other writings besides Nee and Lee.” This mindset was strengthened when WL made his infamous “To go back to the old writings is to go back to the old things” comment in one of the mid-1980’s Elders’ Training messages. Anyone in my region who publicly mentioned that they were reading anything besides Nee and Lee was treated in the same way that the Samaritan woman treated our dear Lord Jesus : “Are you greater than our brothers Nee and Lee? Do you think you have more gift, more discernment, than them? ” And so, while there was nothing like the “One Publication” edict back in those days, there was plenty of public disapproval and peer pressure exercised upon the brothers and sisters to keep them away from any other ministries.

I appreciate dear brother Jim Reetzke’s heart. You were fortunate indeed, dear brother. Sadly, brother Reetzke’s book on T. Austin-Sparks, while really excellent in parts, ends up propagating the old Lee-centric mythology that TAS lost the flow of the Spirit and TAS’s ministry lost its impact once TAS disagreed with WL over the ground of locality.

Excerpt from dear brother Jim Reetzke’s book:

“In 1965, one brother went to a conference in Waubana in which Brother Sparks took the lead. According to this brother’s impression at that time, Brother Spark’s ministry had lost its impact. This again shows that when Brother Sparks refused the way of the Spirit, the flow within him was cut off, and he gradually lost his ministry.”

Compare this to dear brother Herald Hsu’s testimony from Manila in 1964 (emphasis mine):

“Finally in 1964, TAS and his wife also came to Manila where they stayed and ministered to us for a month. TAS held two special conferences and also spoke in regular meetings. He delivered 42 messages in all, leading us and the whole body of Christ into the spiritual and heavenly realms.”

So, which is it – “lost its impact” or “leading us into the spiritual and heavenly realms”?