Where Has All the Orthopraxy Gone?

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by aron

The psychological manipulation in the local churches is more effectively used on the females, I believe. The Local Church workers present propositions to create an emotional response. Men usually are more clinical, more questioning. Female listeners usually will get emotional. They're impacted by psychological pressure, and emotional appeal, then they uncritically accept the propositions at face value, and are emotionally committed.

I agree with aron that this seems like a kind of psychological manipulation. Aron, is there a link to this quote?

I think this has been a kind of trend in the LRC over the years, that it has come to attract people who enjoy influencing, even manipulating, other people -- especially younger people -- just a tiny little bit too much. Maybe the word "interloper" could be used to describe this?

[aron]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I agree with aron that this seems like a kind of psychological manipulation. Aron, is there a link to this quote?

I think this has been a kind of trend in the LRC over the years, that it has come to attract people who enjoy influencing, even manipulating, other people -- especially younger people -- just a tiny little bit too much. Maybe the word "interloper" could be used to describe this?

Just Google "Gene Gruhler" and it is one of the first links. It is from an anti-Christian web site.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/Misc%2...ainwashing.htm

If Christians engage in overtly coercive and manipulative actions against their targets, the so-called "new ones", it really is kind of an anti-testimony. Instead of letting the love of God shine forth.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Just Google "Gene Gruhler" and it is one of the first links. It is from an anti-Christian web site.

http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/Misc%2...ainwashing.htm

Gene Gruhler had everybody excited about the "pipeline." In case you forgot, at the time it was LSM's latest program for our children. Started with singing to babies still in the womb, and ended with them becoming full-timers.

Shouldn't leave his quotes in the Xerox machine.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Gene Gruhler had everybody excited about the "pipeline." In case you forgot, at the time it was LSM's latest program for our children. Started with singing to babies still in the womb, and ended with them becoming full-timers.

Shouldn't leave his quotes in the Xerox machine.

I was in a meeting in which Don Looper discussed the pipeline concept. He referred to the fact that the term, "the pipeline", had been credited to him. While I don't remember exactly what he said, he did say something to the effect of, that he didn't think it had come from him, but that that's what people were saying. Almost as if he had resigned himself to taking credit for coining the phrase.

Does that make sense to anyone?

[aron]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I was in a meeting in which Don Looper discussed the pipeline concept. He referred to the fact that the term, "the pipeline", had been credited to him. While I don't remember exactly what he said, he did say something to the effect of, that he didn't think it had come from him, but that that's what people were saying. Almost as if he had resigned himself to taking credit for coining the phrase.

Does that make sense to anyone?

The pipeline concept was a formal attempt to stop the mass exodus of young people away from the Local Churches. It was organizational, and systematic, and was a reaction of man and not an action of God (along with about 45 other "moves" and "flows" that I can think of). I can understand why Don Looper was uneasy to be associated with it. His conscience was probably protesting.

And Gene Gruhler's spoken notes show the manipulation and control that lie very close to the surface. Yes it is "for the gospel to the young people", but look at the methods... they could be used effectively, and are, for any kind of mind-control cult. Isolate the vulnerable ones, browbeat them and wear them down, get them to uncritically commit to YOUR proposition, and then put them in a system in which they are constantly warned not to question anything. Just do what Big Brother says and everything will be fine.

The Local Churches have a veneer of orthodoxy, and that is one of their recruiting tools, but please understand that underneath they are a cancerous mass of heteropraxy stretching back through Watchman Nee and the Bretheren perhaps to the gospels, i.e. "And they were all arguing to see which one of them was the greatest". All of these weird practices were cooked up by people who had a deeply-rooted need to control the ecclesia and re-shape it in their image. Witness Lee duplication centers, anyone? Remember that one? Gene Gruhler's "gospel methods" and Don Looper's "pipeline" were just the initial steps in a pervasive, controlling system of error.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

The pipeline concept was a formal attempt to stop the mass exodus of young people away from the Local Churches. It was organizational, and systematic, and was a reaction of man and not an action of God (along with about 45 other "moves" and "flows" that I can think of).

The pipeline was just the latest in a long series of false hopes presented to the unsuspecting masses in the LC's. Does anyone see the vicious cycle here? Why we're all the young pele leaving? Because of all the failed programs in the past emanating from LSM. Come far, come near, all ya all climb on the latest bandwagon from the traveling snake oil salesman, while all the ministry groupies were writing songs with catchy pipeline phrases.

Thus was life in the Recovery. An endless cycle of failed programs all Washed away by the latest "move of the Lord." Keep them all busy with the new, so no one has time to consider the results of the old. I still remember the whirlwind of the "new way" era. Yesterday's new way was today's old way -- stay up to date and close to Bruder Lee! He will lead us to the New Jerusalem!

Reminds me of that old Genesis classic "Supper's Ready." At least it was accompanied by fabulous music, though like Lee, most of the lyrics made no sense at all.

[OBW]

It was organizational, and systematic, and was a reaction of man and not an action of God (along with about 45 other "moves" and "flows" that I can think of).

I think it is difficult to say that what people do in response to perceived problems is simply a reaction of man. And even the fact of "45 moves and flows" does not make any one of them specifically problematic.

But the fact that the man who was behind the existence of the following (in other words, Lee) would not pass muster with Paul and his criteria for teacher, elder, or deacon (which would have pretty much eliminated anything resembling apostleship) dooms the following to that of seriously deficient. That means that no matter how much we like each other, and how much we may have brought our own joy along to make the early days seem special, the "reality" behind the whole thing was a lie. The glue that really keeps the thing together was Lee. Some think it is the camaraderie of the people. But that does not exist in a vacuum. It is too peppered with sayings from the "I Lee" preceded by "Brother Lee says that . . . ."

The fact that they were losing young people was not a sign to change moves of flows, but to change leaders. And that could only happen by leaving. Lee would not leave. And despite his death, the BBs will keep dead Lee at the helm. And that is deadly.

So instead of real change, they do their version of a Hail Mary, and convince the majority to stay. And they will continue to succeed with at least a core of followers as long as Toto does not pull the curtain back on the sins of the fathers.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by OBW

So instead of real change, they do their version of a Hail Mary, and convince the majority to stay. And they will continue to succeed with at least a core of followers as long as Toto does not pull the curtain back on the sins of the fathers.

I've known people who remain in the Recovery, and remain quite loyal to the LSM/Anaheim leadership, despite being aware of the "skeletons in the closet". I wouldn't assume that just because Ham's dog Toto (so to speak) comes along and pulls back the curtain on Philip Lee, Daystar, and lackluster suit sales in Seattle -- that everyone who sees that is necessarily going to run for the hills.

Sometimes, these things cause people to become more entrenched.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I was in a meeting in which Don Looper discussed the pipeline concept. He referred to the fact that the term, "the pipeline", had been credited to him. While I don't remember exactly what he said, he did say something to the effect of, that he didn't think it had come from him, but that that's what people were saying. Almost as if he had resigned himself to taking credit for coining the phrase.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Soon after, Looper died and Gruhler was dumped by the Blindeds.

Is there a connection?

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Soon after, Looper died and Gruhler was dumped by the Blindeds.

Is there a connection?

Not sure what you're asking as re Looper's passing.

As for Gruhler being "dumped", that had already happened by the time I heard Looper saying these things. So I wondered whether Looper was being credited for something that was actually Gruhler's brainchild, but of course had to be reassigned to a "faithful brother" after Gruhler got the out.

Also, I should point out that I know very little about what happened to Gene Gruhler. Though I do remember hearing people talk about him in these vague, general terms. Something along the lines of, "Last we heard, he was in Colorado somewhere, but no one really knows what he's doing." I heard people talk the same way about Bill Mallon, "Last we heard, he was in Florida somewhere, but as far as I know, he's really not doing anything there." (Whatever that means.)

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Not sure what you're asking as re Looper's passing.

As for Gruhler being "dumped", that had already happened by the time I heard Looper saying these things. So I wondered whether Looper was being credited for something that was actually Gruhler's brainchild, but of course had to be reassigned to a "faithful brother" after Gruhler got the out.

Also, I should point out that I know very little about what happened to Gene Gruhler. Though I do remember hearing people talk about him in these vague, general terms. Something along the lines of, "Last we heard, he was in Colorado somewhere, but no one really knows what he's doing." I heard people talk the same way about Bill Mallon, "Last we heard, he was in Florida somewhere, but as far as I know, he's really not doing anything there." (Whatever that means.)

Re-reading Norm's posts from thebereans.net, I receive his speaking as saying Gene's moving to Colorado and Philip Lee's excommunication being lifted was no coincidence. The text in bold is what Norm posted.

"Here is how I understood what took place related to GG.

GG signed the letter of quarantine related to Philip. I have good reason to believe GG was the main promoter of that letter.

I believe it was late 1996 in Anaheim GG read a letter removing that quarantine and then one announcing his moving to Denver.

Here is something which I had posted earlier on another thread:

Another very interesting event transpired shortly before Br. Lee’s death. Two announcements were made after a meeting. First, a letter was read by Gene Gruhler which reinstated Phillip Lee into the church fellowship. Second, Gene announced his moving to Denver. To most this was coincidental.

After GG was gone you began to hear, behind the scenes, the joy from some of the blended speakers that he was finally gone. Ed Marks spoke some of the strongest words. There was no love lost.

Eventually after Br. Lee’s departure there was a reassigning of the regions of the work to brothers. GG had always taken care of the Mountain States. Now, even though he was living in Denver, Mel Porter was the new worker to oversee that region.

Four years ago, while in the Denver area doing research for a book, I visited Br. Gene, not related to the book. He did not speak about the things that transpired in Anaheim. He has very high standards for himself before the Lord. There was only one little sentence of three words spoken at the very end when I was leaving. I realized from them he had been maneuvered out of Anaheim with the view to purge him out."