Where Has All the Orthopraxy Gone?

[Freedom]

Since the idea of “hidden practices” was brought up yesterday, I wanted to take some time to add some of my thoughts. I mentioned that I think that esotericism enables the LC to survive. Since I have grown up in the LC (aka “church kid”), I have seen it change different ways throughout the years. It seems to me that in certain ways they are more relaxed about different practices than they used to be. On the flip side, however, the practices haven’t changed, because to reject any practices would be to reject what WL taught.

I think most who are in the LC realize that there are many practices that are not conducive to having an increase and gaining anyone. No one can admit this though. It seems that a current strategy employed by the LC is present a version of the LC that is watered down to those whom they are trying to gain. Since I have seen what goes on with the campus/college work, I am able to comment on that. College students are one of the main inlets for the LC anyways, so I think it is worth discussing.

What I saw with the campus work in the LC is that they attempt to gain people in very subtle ways. Many students starting college who are Christians will be looking for a Christian group or Bible study at their school. The LC campus work usually involve a campus Bible study of some. One of the first things newcomers might notice upon attending one of these LC Bible studies is that everyone uses the same version of the Bible (RV). No one, will tell them, however, that they have to use any particular version of the Bible. The catch is that it’s not a simple Bible study, it’s more like a WL footnote study. If someone doesn’t have a RV, they will be left out. So even though no one is telling them what version to use, they are subtly being forced to use a certain version of the Bible. I think a lot of the time LC practices aren’t forced upon people in an obvious way, LC practices are “suggested” in a way that makes someone feel like the odd one out if they don’t conform.

With students, the process goes on from there and they use baby steps to introduce aspects and practices of the LC. I think there is a lot of consideration as to what to introduce to each person at a particular point in time. On a more general level, I have heard it said many times to not bring a newcomer to a Lord’s Table meeting right off the bat. To me, this kind of thinking clearly demonstrates that there is something about the LC that they wish to “hide” from newcomers.

I could go on all day about this. This idea of hidden practices is also applicable to those on the “outskirts” of the LC as well as die hard members. I see many who are not really all that gung ho about the LC, but they are tolerated because having these people means bigger numbers. These kind of LC members aren’t pressured much to go to the trainings, skip holiday celebrations, etc.

One practice that comes to mind is that I have seen is the more involved members are pushed to dress a certain way (suit, tie, etc). Those who are heavily involved in the LC aren’t likely to object to being told how to dress. Those who aren’t as involved might object to that kind of pressure, so they are left alone. It is a double standard and it involves revealing certain aspects of LC practice to a select few, or those would will likely be willing to go along with it.

To me this kind of thinking is presented to everyone with the face of “we don’t tell anyone what to do”. I like I said earlier in this thread, a typical response when some reacts to a certain practice is tell them “that’s your concept” or “we don’t have any rule on that”. It is a subtle game they play in the LC. It’s hard to put a finger on it. It’s also difficult to discuss because all our experiences are different.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Freedom

With students, the process goes on from there and they use baby steps to introduce aspects and practices of the LC. I think there is a lot of consideration as to what to introduce to each person at a particular point in time. On a more general level, I have heard it said many times to not bring a newcomer to a Lord’s Table meeting right off the bat. To me, this kind of thinking clearly demonstrates that there is something about the LC that they wish to “hide” from newcomers.

I've also observed this type of thing. Full-timers and other local church members will go out of their way to coordinate the timing of when a particular "new one" from the campus will be introduced to the home meetings, the big meetings, the Holy Word for Morning Revival books, "calling on the Lord," etc. Even as I write this, I realize that this could be considered rather innocuous, or, it could certainly seem to some people like they have something to hide. And I think they do lose plenty of potential recruits on account of that.

But I think they're also willing to be content w/an overall retention rate, so to speak, that is much less than 50%.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I've also observed this type of thing. Full-timers and other local church members will go out of their way to coordinate the timing of when a particular "new one" from the campus will be introduced to the home meetings, the big meetings, the Holy Word for Morning Revival books, "calling on the Lord," etc. Even as I write this, I realize that this could be considered rather innocuous, or, it could certainly seem to some people like they have something to hide. And I think they do lose plenty of potential recruits on account of that.

But I think they're also willing to be content w/an overall retention rate, so to speak, that is much less than 50%.

I agree that no one is necessarily trying to hide anything. I think at a basic level, the consideration regarding when to introduce a "new one" to different aspects of the LC is primarily to keep them from being too shocked by things such as how loud LC meetings are. There are many obvious things about the LC that they make no effort to hide over the long run once someone joins.

The last line of what you said caught my attention. It is not always clear in regards to what kind of people they are looking to draw in and keep. I know that college students are a huge focus, but definitely not all college students. I'm not sure what exact personality profile they are looking for.

Even when a complete stranger walks into a LC meeting cold turkey, often they will not pay any attention to this type of person if he/she is not the type they are looking for. Having been in the LC my whole life, I have seen this happen a number of times, and I think that I have a general idea of what type of people they don't want.

Actually, from my perspective, the LC is very peculiar in the regards to trying to gain people. I know the 80's WL was saying stuff like if you do method X you will see such and such an increase within so many years. They have some interesting expectations regarding the increase. I hear it all the time even today.

Once LC leadership qualifies what they what, it turns out that they are mainly looking to gain college students and maybe even just a few that are willing to jump in the deep end. There are a few here and there who come in who are not college students, but they are the exception. Since college students typically come from their hometown to attend a school, once they finish their degree, they are gone. For a church to depend its increase on gaining students off a campus is not a viable strategy in the long run.

One area the LC has little focus on the community. It seems the community isn't worth their time. I know that they do have a "community" team in the FTTA. Last I heard, some of the trainees were talking about how the community team went door knocking in the area near the training center and happened to inadvertently visit the home of an ex-LC brother and talk to him. Of course we all know the LC's position on talking to "negative" ones, but trainees are not going to know the who's who of ex-members. Apparently there was some talk about keeping better track of where the community team is visiting. Sounds like they have more important things to worry about than contacting the community, such as censoring the trainees from ex-members.

In general, I don't see any real effort for to gain the average Joe. Either they already know their efforts will be futile or they are stuck relying on gaining college students. I've been a few LCs that were just a single home gathering in that city. Here's something that really bothered me about that: they say they are the church in X, but they have made no effort to contact any Christians or invite people to their meeting. In many cases it seems that increase is not a concern so much as establishing their LC franchise somewhere.

In summary, when I look at this whole issue of gaining people and increase, I think there is a lot of "fellowship" going on behind the scenes that most don't know about. It's really the only explanation as to why things are so peculiar. I think the average member such as myself is left to wonder what is really going on. We have learned to just accept things as they are and not ask questions.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

One area the LC has little focus on the community. It seems the community isn't worth their time. I know that they do have a "community" team in the FTTA. Last I heard, some of the trainees were talking about how the community team went door knocking in the area near the training center and happened to inadvertently visit the home of an ex-LC brother and talk to him. Of course we all know the LC's position on talking to "negative" ones, but trainees are not going to know the who's who of ex-members. Apparently there was some talk about keeping better track of where the community team is visiting. Sounds like they have more important things to worry about than contacting the community, such as censoring the trainees from ex-members.

Not only an ex-LC brother, but happened to be a former elder of the church in Anaheim. Of course the blendeds don't want to know how impressed John was with the trainees. Because the ministry portrays brothers like John anything but loving brothers in the Lord.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Not only an ex-LC brother, but happened to be a former elder of the church in Anaheim. Of course the blendeds don't want to know how impressed John was with the trainees. Because the ministry portrays brothers like John anything but loving brothers in the Lord.

I didn't know it was John that they talked to. It's ironic how no matter how hard the blendeds want to cover up history, it finds a way of revealing itself.

Before I ever read anything on the internet, I saw John's name in the hymnal introduction. I also saw it in the preface/forward to older copies of the classic LSM titles, and I saw it in some Life Sudy messages.

So there I was, a church kid who grew up after all these brothers had left. I never heard the names of any brothers like JI, it wasn't until I saw those names in print that I began to wonder who they were. I even asked someone about it and they said they didn't know. I thought to myself, hmmmmm this seems suspicious. Eventually I found out by reading these forums.

My point is that I think trainees would be shocked to learn just a basic lesson in LC history (60's-80's). The only reason I know anything about LC history is through the internet, otherwise it is an off limits topic. Trainees dedicate 2 years of their lives to the LC. They certainly deserve a basic history lesson.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Before I ever read anything on the internet, I saw John's name in the hymnal introduction. I also saw it in the preface/forward to older copies of the classic LSM titles, and I saw it in some Life Sudy messages.

So there I was, a church kid who grew up after all these brothers had left. I never heard the names of any brothers like JI, it wasn't until I saw those names in print that I began to wonder who they were. I even asked someone about it and they said they didn't know. I thought to myself, hmmmmm this seems suspicious. Eventually I found out by reading these forums.

Freedom, I have a similar memory. I had also seen John Ingalls' name in the old books, and I remember mentioning his name in a home meeting. I also knew nothing of the history, though I had heard of a "rebellion" or "storm" in the 80's, but how would I have known that he was "involved" in that? Anyway, the response I got? People just stared at me. Made me really uncomfortable. You'd think I'd grown alien antennae or something.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Freedom, I have a similar memory. I had also seen John Ingalls' name in the old books, and I remember mentioning his name in a home meeting. I also knew nothing of the history, though I had heard of a "rebellion" or "storm" in the 80's, but how would I have known that he was "involved" in that? Anyway, the response I got? People just stared at me. Made me really uncomfortable. You'd think I'd grown alien antennae or something.

That's why it's become called "The Hidden History of the Local Church." They cover their past like a cat covers their ........ well that ... it ... without sh.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Freedom, I have a similar memory. I had also seen John Ingalls' name in the old books, and I remember mentioning his name in a home meeting. I also knew nothing of the history, though I had heard of a "rebellion" or "storm" in the 80's, but how would I have known that he was "involved" in that? Anyway, the response I got? People just stared at me. Made me really uncomfortable. You'd think I'd grown alien antennae or something.

It was ironic, but I did not want to pursue the matter. The summer before my uncle passed, my sons and I visited my uncle and aunt on our way back from California. (My wife and daughter were in Europe).
While at a restaurant, my uncle and aunt asked out of the blue about John Ingalls. Just wondered how he was. They had reminisced when they hosted John for hospitality when my uncle and aunt were living in South Africa (early 80's).