What is the Government of God? by Dick Wiedneheft

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I think the article presents a balanced view. Both Nee and Lee's emphasis on teachings regarding authority and submission should have been a red flag. Those kind of teachings are inevitably used to control. How else would it be used?

Couldn't agree more. Somehow an entire book that creates absolutes in terms of authority and hierarchy stands in stark contrast to the commands for:

• Servant leaders
• Not lording it over
• Accepting a charge against an elder with only two witnesses (rather than never)

And so on.

It seems that we thought we were in such a spiritual place, yet when it came to defining the role of those who gave us the revelation, the core of it was so unspiritual and anti-scripture that it should have sent us screaming out the doors. You can't get both good water and bad water from the same well. And the clear evidence of the bad water should prove to us that we were fooled by marketing on the parts we thought were good.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

Couldn't agree more. Somehow an entire book that creates absolutes in terms of authority and hierarchy stands in stark contrast to the commands for:

• Servant leaders
• Not lording it over
• Accepting a charge against an elder with only two witnesses (rather than never)

And so on.

Instead you might be told, "you're going against God's government", "you're rebelling against the deputy authority", etc.
Whatever compelling points one might make, the papal decree that is the phrase to end all discussion, "God is sovereign".

Really brothers? This is avoidance of accountability. No recognition of spiritual responsibility of reconciliation. This heartless attitude is an indication of a spiritual stronghold.

But no one can enter the strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house. Mark 3:27

[OBW]

I think that we do not understand the sovereignty of God. I do not suggest that he is not sovereign. But I think that we expect that he will exercise his sovereignty for us in all things when we want it, but withhold it when we do not.

The kind of desire for sovereignty that expects God to step in and straighten everything out is inconsistent with the restraint of sovereignty that allows free will to choose or not choose God. Or to fail as we seek to arrive at truly walking by the Spirit. If it was simply God's sovereignty, then we could blame God for our failures and thank him for our successes.

I'm not saying that God never intervenes. But most of his intervention is within us and not within the events that occur in the world — even those that involve us. Oh, I'm sure that he intervenes physically. He still heals more than souls, minds, attitudes, desires. He also heals bodies. But not always. He mostly allows the events of life to happen. And given the fact of human interactions, genetics, and so on, there will be car accidents, wars, cancer, evil people, and so on. And we are not promised freedom from any of those. That does not make death by car accident sovereign — other than to note that God's sovereignty is often (mostly?) expressed in restraint from intervention in the natural course of things.

And after writing all of this, it is arguable that the fact that, in his sovereignty, God does not intervene on behalf of the righteous in defense against abusive spiritual predators like Lee and the BBs is to say that God is sovereign in how they treat their followers. That would be a gross misunderstanding of the term. But if God was actively sovereign in everything, the outcome would be remarkably different. And Lee would never have arrived in the US claiming to be a minister of Christ. At least not in the way he actually did it.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

I think that we do not understand the sovereignty of God. I do not suggest that he is not sovereign. But I think that we expect that he will exercise his sovereignty for us in all things when we want it, but withhold it when we do not.

The kind of desire for sovereignty that expects God to step in and straighten everything out is inconsistent with the restraint of sovereignty that allows free will to choose or not choose God. Or to fail as we seek to arrive at truly walking by the Spirit. If it was simply God's sovereignty, then we could blame God for our failures and thank him for our successes.

I'm not saying that God never intervenes. But most of his intervention is within us and not within the events that occur in the world — even those that involve us. Oh, I'm sure that he intervenes physically. He still heals more than souls, minds, attitudes, desires. He also heals bodies. But not always. He mostly allows the events of life to happen. And given the fact of human interactions, genetics, and so on, there will be car accidents, wars, cancer, evil people, and so on. And we are not promised freedom from any of those. That does not make death by car accident sovereign — other than to note that God's sovereignty is often (mostly?) expressed in restraint from intervention in the natural course of things.

And after writing all of this, it is arguable that the fact that, in his sovereignty, God does not intervene on behalf of the righteous in defense against abusive spiritual predators like Lee and the BBs is to say that God is sovereign in how they treat their followers. That would be a gross misunderstanding of the term. But if God was actively sovereign in everything, the outcome would be remarkably different. And Lee would never have arrived in the US claiming to be a minister of Christ. At least not in the way he actually did it.

It should never be used as an escape clause to excuse one's self from being accountable.