Hear The Cases

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by HERn

I'm thinking the order would come through the co-worker that supervises the states that the local church was a part of, and not directly from someone with an Anaheim phone prefix. I think local elders could choose to ignore the "fellowship" and be OK, but they might be subjected to continual peer pressure from co-workers and other elders to support the "flow". It seems to me things move very slowly in the LSM-LC movement, and it could take several years of pressure to "knuckle under" a wayward elder. I once asked a leading elder if he was going to follow the lords move to Europe and he told me he only does what the co-worker for our area tells him to do.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were certain coworkers appointed to oversee a certain set of churches. I know that where I'm from, there are one or two coworkers that have visited fairly frequently compared to any other coworkers.

It's hard to say what level of influence they have. What I have noticed is the local elders tend to defer things to the coworkers when they seem unsure of themselves. Maybe many of the elders are not completely confident with their leadership abilities so they feel like the need the coworkers as father figures to help them through some of the more important decisions.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It wouldn't surprise me if there were certain coworkers appointed to oversee a certain set of churches. I know that where I'm from, there are one or two coworkers that have visited fairly frequently compared to any other coworkers.

It's hard to say what level of influence they have. What I have noticed is the local elders tend to defer things to the coworkers when they seem unsure of themselves. Maybe many of the elders are not completely confident with their leadership abilities so they feel like the need the coworkers as father figures to help them through some of the more important decisions.

LSM's continued dominance requires that all the local brothers lack confidence in their own decisions. In fact, this pattern is systemic throughout the program. Every member is indoctrinated into believing that "safe" decisions are made for you by others, and all personal decisions are deemed "independent." The regular "storms" and "purges" in the Recovery are more about rooting out this "independence" than anything else.

Titus Chu used to say that every great general had a long trail of dead soldiers behind him. And this was his justification?!?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Titus Chu used to say that every great general had a long trail of dead soldiers behind him. And this was his justification?!?

That's Lee and Chu. How long is the trail of dead soldiers behind them?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's Lee and Chu. How long is the trail of dead soldiers behind them?

It's probably quite a long trail. I guess that would depend on how many independent thinkers there have been in the LC. They can't have those kind of people, they are dangerous.
I am convinced that one of the most valuable assets to the blendeds are local elders who posses limited leadership abilities, but lack the confidence to make any important decisions. Those leaders who are able to lead an LC in an autonomous fashion are the most dangerous. Those leaders who are completely out of control such as what is described in Hear the Cases are tolerated as long as they are supporting the ministry.

I actually find it quite ironic. Local churches who sought to function autonomously, minding their own business, such as those in the midwest, were sued over church property. When a situation comes up where an out of control leader (who supports the ministry), is being abusive, there is no action taken to deal with the leader. Instead those who have been wronged by him are quarantined. It defies all logic.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's Lee and Chu. How long is the trail of dead soldiers behind them?

And when and where did any of the apostles assume the position of Commander-in-Chief?

Does not that unique role belong exclusively to the Lord Himself?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And when and where did any of the apostles assume the position of Commander-in-Chief?

Does not that unique role belong exclusively to the Lord Himself?

And His final perfecting act was the culmination of "I came not to be served, but to serve" by the offering of His human life so that millions could be victors over sin, satan, and death. Compare this to what WL and the BBs offer.

[aron]

Originally Posted by HERn

And His final perfecting act was the culmination of "I came not to be served, but to serve" by the offering of His human life so that millions could be victors over sin, satan, and death. Compare this to what WL and the BBs offer.

The ministry, so-called, is a black hole with an inferiority complex at its center. Everything goes in, and nothing comes out. I told this story before so bear with me: several years ago I visited my old "local church", and saw that the building was the same, the piano was the same, the songs were the same, many of the older characters were the same.

But you know what I noticed? No young adults. They were all either "in the world" or they were "serving the ministry". Seems that you either got vacuumed up by Anaheim and put in service at some ministry outpost, or you just couldn't make it, spiritually. Actually, there's nearly nothing local at all about the local churches of Witness Lee. They're merely feeders for the ministry.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

But you know what I noticed? No young adults. They were all either "in the world" or they were "serving the ministry". Seems that you either got vacuumed up by Anaheim and put in service at some ministry outpost, or you just couldn't make it, spiritually. Actually, there's nearly nothing local at all about the local churches of Witness Lee. They're merely feeders for the ministry.

The majority of LC young adults who actively meet are being sucked in to the FTTA. I'm inclined to believe that this is mostly happening through coercion. With some of those I know, this was indeed the case. I think those like me who chose not to go ended up feeling second tier. Most either dropped out of the LC completely or withdrew gradually. I find it really sad what the LC has become. It's not that there is an absence of young adults, if you go to certain LC's you might see a lot of young adults, but the reality of it is they are mostly FTTA graduates who know how to "play church". At least in the old days, the LC atmosphere was something that could be created without sending people off to Anaheim for two years.

It just goes to show the fundamental problem at the heart of the LC. It is a system of hierarchy that necessitates individuals who express full allegiance to the ministry (LSM) and the ministry only. It starts with planting leaders in churches that are LSM loyal. LC history has proven that isn't quite enough. Some leaders become defectors. The LC also need members who can also stay loyal to the ministry in case a leader is to be ousted. This is accomplished through things like the FTTA.

The whole LC environment is about creating loyalty and allegiance towards the ministry. That's why they love to make statements like: "other Christians don't..." or "we are so thankful for the ministry of the age". It's all a matter of increasing dependence on the ministry. This is what really turned me off about the LC. In my interactions with LC members, I began to notice more and more that there was always a hidden agenda at play. If someone wanted to have lunch we me, they didn't just want to have lunch, there was usually something specific that they wanted to discuss or ask. Same thing with conversations. Conversations always seemed to go towards things like "are you going to the summer training?" or "what did you enjoy from the HWFMR?". There was hardly ever any opportunities to discuss normal things without having a conversation go in a direction to where there was an attempt to analyze how much I was getting into the ministry. That is how I might summarize the majority of my LC interactions, people trying to determine whether or not I was fully engulfed in the ministry.