Attempting to SEEM inclusive

[OBW]

I made mention of one-way inclusiveness the other day. I think that a more viable understanding is that:

• They are not one with anyone that is not taking their way.
• They include only those who will come to them to be included.

It would appear that at this time, the RCC is more truly inclusive than the LCM. The RCC, like the brother pushing the EO at times, thinks that they are the original church and therefore should be the only church, but they do not deny the status as "church" for others or deny their salvation.

But the LCM would refer to any group that is not them as "so-called" churches. They do not recognize the assembly of believers outside of themselves as being churches. Especially within a city in which there is an LCM assembly.

To get a feel for the kind of sectarianism that prevails in the LCM, several years ago when I was still keeping up with Facebook, there was a post announcing that there was once again a church in Rome since there were followers of Lee that had "taken the ground." Not exactly their words, but it was precisely what was meant.

Really?!? No church in Rome for all these centuries? If that does not say enough about it, I don't know what would!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by OBW

To get a feel for the kind of sectarianism that prevails in the LCM, several years ago when I was still keeping up with Facebook, there was a post announcing that there was once again a church in Rome since there were followers of Lee that had "taken the ground." Not exactly their words, but it was precisely what was meant.

Really?!? No church in Rome for all these centuries? If that does not say enough about it, I don't know what would!

I saw the same. For all we know, that assembly could constitute of 6 brothers and sisters and that's your expression of the church in Rome. Of a city more than 4 million, I doubt that's all the Christians in Rome.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

I saw the same. For all we know, that assembly could constitute of 6 brothers and sisters and that's your expression of the church in Rome. Of a city more than 4 million, I doubt that's all the Christians in Rome.

It's funny how confidently those in the LC can make such claims. Yet, they don't know any better. This is what they believe. Something that I have come to realize is that those in the LC have really devloped different semantics for what the word 'church' means. As an example, in the footnote for Matt 16:18 on the word 'church', the RcV states the following:
Gk. ekklesia, meaning an out-calling. This word is used in reference to a called-out congregation. My church indicates that the church is of the Lord, not of any other person or thing; it is not like the denominations, which are denominated according to some person's name or according to some matter.

So, LCers believe the church to be primary an out-calling, and importantly it seems that this out-calling is supposed to primarily from none other than denominations. It's no wonder that 'church' has become a loaded term to them. They can't view any normal assembly as being part of the church, their assembling only occurs by dividing and separating themselves from other Christians - as an "out-calling" from everything they chose to criticize.

If we replace the word 'church' with assembly, and apply that to their nomenclature, what we get is them saying things like "we are THE assembly in Rome." Their whole one church one city rule works for them because their semantics differ from everyone else. It is obvious that within a city, there are numerous Christian assemblies, and for any one group to claim that they are the only assembly or the most important assembly is both ignorant and prideful.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

[I]Gk. ekklesia, meaning an out-calling. This word is used in reference to a called-out congregation. My church indicates that the church is of the Lord, not of any other person or thing; it is not like the denominations, which are denominated according to some person's name or according to some matter.

Based on your RcV quote, it appears they're calling the local churches a denomination...."or according to some matter". When I was last at a LC LTM
in 2014, one of the utterances coming out of the HWFMR is fellowship is according to the ministry publications. Whatever LSM publishes, that is the basis for fellowship.
While attempting to call themselves inclusive, they necessarily don't want to be held by inclusiveness. Rather, it's conditional in practice. If you have a vision of the brand of theology LSM publishes, of course there's inclusion. If you're one who wants scripture only, you will be viewed unfavorably. Maybe even escorted from the LTM.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

[/I]So, LCers believe the church to be primary an out-calling, and importantly it seems that this out-calling is supposed to primarily from none other than denominations. It's no wonder that 'church' has become a loaded term to them. They can't view any normal assembly as being part of the church, their assembling only occurs by dividing and separating themselves from other Christians - as an "out-calling" from everything they chose to criticize.

If we replace the word 'church' with assembly, and apply that to their nomenclature, what we get is them saying things like "we are THE assembly in Rome." Their whole one church one city rule works for them because their semantics differ from everyone else. It is obvious that within a city, there are numerous Christian assemblies, and for any one group to claim that they are the only assembly or the most important assembly is both ignorant and prideful.

There's the thought just because the words "local", "locality", or using the phrase "Christians meeting as the church in" invokes inclusion, generality, etc. Yet in practice basing fellowship on a ministry makes in fact a ministry church. There is no way for a general visiting Christian to sense any inclusion. In reality churches that base fellowship on a ministry should realize their meetings are not for anyone except those who share the vision the ministry promotes.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

I saw the same. For all we know, that assembly could constitute of 6 brothers and sisters and that's your expression of the church in Rome. Of a city more than 4 million, I doubt that's all the Christians in Rome.

And I bet that a major portion of them attend mass regularly at one of the many RCC places each week.