Double Standards

Freedom · 11-22-2015, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW

In other words, "We don't care for doctrine or theology, but if you diss ours we will sue your pants off."

Because I grew up in the LC, I really took to heart many of these various admonitions, thinking that doing things like disregarding doctrine really meant something special. As I later came to discover, leaders only wanted members to that, they were very much interested in defending WL's teachings.

TLFisher · 11-23-2015, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom

Because I grew up in the LC, I really took to heart many of these various admonitions, thinking that doing things like disregarding doctrine really meant something special. As I later came to discover, leaders only wanted members to that, they were very much interested in defending WL's teachings.

Best way to put it is a double-standard. One minute saying we don't care for doctrines and in the very next second clinging on to the doctrine of the ground which is a doctrine of division. Very few I have read or listened to (T.A. Sparks, Stephen Kaung, etc) were and in Stephen's case (still is clear) how the doctrine of the ground becomes fruit of division.

TLFisher · 12-05-2015, 06:10 PM

"Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:13
In the 18+ years since Witness Lee's passing, the blendeds (among others) carry on as if it was Witness Lee who was crucified for them or as if they were baptized in the name of Witness Lee.
Surely it will be said "you're misunderstanding. It's that we appreciated brother Lee's ministry so much"
The misunderstanding is a double-standard. Whether it be John Ingalls, the Church in Moses Lake, or even Steve Isitt and Mario Sandoval, I could say those leading LSM and various localities don't want to try to understand. Their mind is made up. I could shout from the rooftop you brothers are misunderstanding. They'll say, there's no misunderstanding.
When it their in the position wanting to be understood by Christian scholars, etc they'll expect to be understood when there's a perceived misunderstanding.

TLFisher · 01-10-2016, 06:16 PM

Another double standard I read on a Facebook post:

"Once a story is secondhand, it begins to change, and eventually it can become a great exaggeration. This is always the case with rumors. In order to learn the lesson of long-suffering, we need to experience the suffering of restricting our mouth and stopping our tongue. We may see and hear many things, but we should not speak a word without the anointing and leading of the Holy Spirit. We must not let the enemy use our tongue for his purpose... If a brother wrongs us, we should not say a word....It is better to choose long-suffering. Then we will be saved from the wrong kind of suffering, and the church life will be kept from damage.

In order to hear one another in love, we need to fight against suspicion and fear in the church life. Instead of these two things, we should have only love. To have suspicion toward a brother means that our love is gone. Then after suspicion, fear will follow. If the two brother suspicious of each other, they will be like spies to one another. This will produce a mutual fear between them.

We must give no ground to suspicion and fear. We love our brothers; we do not fear them. First John 4:18 says, There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear."

That in bold is my emphasis. Regarding exaggerations, turmoils in the recovery were a product of exaggerations and rumors without any factchecking. Facts were neglected. Whichever rumor was the flavor of the day, that's what LSM propagated.
Of course, if you call them on rumors and exaggerations, brothers become agitated. That's the double standard.

TLFisher · 01-19-2016, 12:07 PM

Due to recent posts by Freedom and Abrotherinfaith, it's clear another double-standard is "the ground of the church"......"oneness based on locality"...
can't really say that when your fellowship is according to ministry publications. On one hand this is what brothers speak and respeak, but in practice there is no oneness and there is no fellowship without Living Stream Ministry.

TLFisher · 01-24-2016, 10:09 AM

Another double standard is handling matters in house. Specifically when discussing Steve Isitt with a NW elder (in 2009), that's what he told me. Instead of going onto the internet Steve should have handled matters in house. This is a double standard because there is no interest of handling matters in house. Steve could very well speak for himself and his numerous attempts at fellowship. There has never been a hint of impartial elders. There's been no example of capable brothers as described in Exodus 18:25-26

"He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. They served as judges for the people at all times. The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves."

So the concept of "handling matters in house" really means "cease and desist" which implies stop and do not take it up again. So, it's never really handling anything. It's as if a leading brother means to say, "we'll just sweep it under the rug".

Freedom · 01-25-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

In religion there is no light, life, truth, or reality; that is, there is no Christ. Christ is there only in name, not in His person and living reality. Likewise, there is no church in reality. The church is the living Body of Christ, but what surrounds us today is a religion full of traditions, organizations, teachings, doctrines, performances, and falsehood. The Lord cannot accomplish His purpose in this situation. (CWWL, 1977, vol. 1, “The Lord's Recovery and the Present Situation of Religion,” p. 476)

Because of our standing for the pure church life, others have been offended. But what can we do? Paul says in Galatians 1:10, “If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a slave of Christ.” If we were men-pleasers, we would not suffer persecution as Paul did. The history of the Lord's recovery is a history of coming out of and being outside of the present evil age. We have burned the bridges between us and Christianity, but some among us have tried to build a bridge to bring us back. We need to burn all the bridges. There should be no bridge between the local churches and Christianity. Everything should be after its kind. The denominations are after their kind, and the local churches should be after their kind. We should be what we are without compromise or pretense. I am afraid that in the coming years, if the Lord delays His coming, some subtle ones will be used by the enemy again to try to bridge the gap between us and Christianity. We need to maintain such a gap between us and Christianity. The wider this gap is the better because it is a gap between us and the present evil age. Thank the Lord that Brother Nee was a pioneer ahead of us to come out of Christianity into the pure church life to accomplish God's will to have the Body of Christ. (CWWL, 1973-1974, vol. 1, “The History of the Church and the Local Churches,” p. 95)

In the above two excerpts WL makes some statements about religion and Christianity, regarding a condition that he perceives. He also likens Christianity to the "present evil age". On another thread, I posted a quote where WL states that standing is more important than condition. Here in-lies another double standard. WL wouldn't give any amount of consideration to the condition of the LC, and even some of those who have questioned the condition have been excommunicated. With respect to other Christians, there was no end to the criticism of their supposed condition. The condition was perceived to be so bad that WL stated that all bridges to Christianity had been burned, and 'evil' is a word that WL would use to describe Christians.

Without a doubt, LCers believe everything that WL spoke and have taken it to heart. WL's attitude towards Christians really tarnished the reputation of the LC (and that reputation isn't going away any time soon). Considering this, isn't it ironic that LC leaders would be willing to involve themselves with other Christians for the sake of improving the image of the LC? Obviously, the current process of "building a bridge" is not with the intention of genuine fellowship with other Christians, it its with the sole purpose of using other Christians as a means to create a better public perception of the LC. Behind the doors of meeting halls, criticism of Christianity abounds.

12-05-2015, 06:10 PM	#3
TLFisher Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Renton, Washington Posts: 3,562	Misunderstanding "Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:13 In the 18+ years since Witness Lee's passing, the blendeds (among others) carry on as if it was Witness Lee who was crucified for them or as if they were baptized in the name of Witness Lee. Surely it will be said "you're misunderstanding. It's that we appreciated brother Lee's ministry so much" The misunderstanding is a double-standard. Whether it be John Ingalls, the Church in Moses Lake, or even Steve Isitt and Mario Sandoval, I could say those leading LSM and various localities don't want to try to understand. Their mind is made up. I could shout from the rooftop you brothers are misunderstanding. They'll say, there's no misunderstanding. When it their in the position wanting to be understood by Christian scholars, etc they'll expect to be understood when there's a perceived misunderstanding.

01-10-2016, 06:16 PM	#4
TLFisher Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Renton, Washington Posts: 3,562	Re: Double Standards Another double standard I read on a Facebook post: "Once a story is secondhand, it begins to change, and eventually it can become a great exaggeration. This is always the case with rumors. In order to learn the lesson of long-suffering, we need to experience the suffering of restricting our mouth and stopping our tongue. We may see and hear many things, but we should not speak a word without the anointing and leading of the Holy Spirit. We must not let the enemy use our tongue for his purpose... If a brother wrongs us, we should not say a word....It is better to choose long-suffering. Then we will be saved from the wrong kind of suffering, and the church life will be kept from damage. In order to hear one another in love, we need to fight against suspicion and fear in the church life. Instead of these two things, we should have only love. To have suspicion toward a brother means that our love is gone. Then after suspicion, fear will follow. If the two brother suspicious of each other, they will be like spies to one another. This will produce a mutual fear between them. We must give no ground to suspicion and fear. We love our brothers; we do not fear them. First John 4:18 says, There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." That in bold is my emphasis. Regarding exaggerations, turmoils in the recovery were a product of exaggerations and rumors without any factchecking. Facts were neglected. Whichever rumor was the flavor of the day, that's what LSM propagated. Of course, if you call them on rumors and exaggerations, brothers become agitated. That's the double standard.

01-19-2016, 12:07 PM	#5
TLFisher Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Renton, Washington Posts: 3,562	Re: Double Standards Due to recent posts by Freedom and Abrotherinfaith, it's clear another double-standard is "the ground of the church"......"oneness based on locality"... can't really say that when your fellowship is according to ministry publications. On one hand this is what brothers speak and respeak, but in practice there is no oneness and there is no fellowship without Living Stream Ministry.

01-24-2016, 10:09 AM	#6
TLFisher Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Renton, Washington Posts: 3,562	Handling Matters in House Another double standard is handling matters in house. Specifically when discussing Steve Isitt with a NW elder (in 2009), that's what he told me. Instead of going onto the internet Steve should have handled matters in house. This is a double standard because there is no interest of handling matters in house. Steve could very well speak for himself and his numerous attempts at fellowship. There has never been a hint of impartial elders. There's been no example of capable brothers as described in Exodus 18:25-26 "He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. They served as judges for the people at all times. The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves." So the concept of "handling matters in house" really means "cease and desist" which implies stop and do not take it up again. So, it's never really handling anything. It's as if a leading brother means to say, "we'll just sweep it under the rug".