Wright Doyle's Biography of Nee

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Leland Wang
I am a Chinese by birth and a Christian by rebirth. I am a Chinese by race, and a Christian by grace.

After our marriage, my Christian wife, Ada, led me back to a search for life's truth. While attending church with her one day, I heard the congregation singing, "Nearer, My God, to Thee." I thought, "That must be a wonderful God. I've never heard anyone sing, 'Nearer, my idol, to thee.'" I reflected upon all the good works — hospitals, schools, missions -- built in China in the name of Jesus. Even the history of the world is dated before and after His birth, I reasoned.

This is one thing that always bothers me about Nee's and Lee's story-telling about the beginnings of the "Recovery" in China. I always heard about those dire, dead, deplorable, and dreaded denominations in China during the early 20th century. Never did I hear Nee or Lee appreciate all the good works — hospitals, schools, missions -- built in China in the name of Jesus.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Never did I hear Nee or Lee appreciate all the good works — hospitals, schools, missions -- built in China in the name of Jesus.

You know what's interesting about Leland Wang? He was also there, getting "perfected" by Margaret Barber. He was in the same exact cultural and historical milieu. He was there, renting the hall for the Shanghai Christian Assembly. He was gathering with Watchman Nee and all the rest, ringing bells and wearing "gospel shirts".

And you know what? It looks like he "dropped his culture", just like Lee and Nee were supposed to do. He accepted and received Billy Graham, and was received by Billy Graham, if the article from 1965 is to be believed.

He was okay with "churches, schools, and missions ... in the name of Jesus." He didn't sneer at it, then turn around and build some exclusive "training center". He didn't deride (from what I can see) "Campus Chrusade for Christ" or "Intervarsity", then push some "Christians on Campus" as if it were newer and truer.

So who dropped their concepts and their native culture here - Witness, or Watchman, or Leland?

Did Leland ever insist that all churches everywhere have to be "absolutely identical"? That there can only be one apostle per age? Who had trouble letting go, here? Seems to me that he was free, and Nee and Lee never escaped their culture.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

You know what's interesting about Leland Wang? He was also there, getting "perfected" by Margaret Barber. He was in the same exact cultural and historical milieu. He was there, renting the hall for the Shanghai Christian Assembly. He was gathering with Watchman Nee and all the rest, ringing bells and wearing "gospel shirts".

And you know what? It looks like he "dropped his culture", just like Lee and Nee were supposed to do. He accepted and received Billy Graham, and was received by Billy Graham, if the article from 1965 is to be believed.

He was okay with "churches, schools, and missions ... in the name of Jesus." He didn't sneer at it, then turn around and build some exclusive "training center". He didn't deride (from what I can see) "Campus Chrusade for Christ" or "Intervarsity", then push some "Christians on Campus" as if it were newer and truer.

So who dropped their concepts and their native culture here - Witness, or Watchman, or Leland?

Did Leland ever insist that all churches everywhere have to be "absolutely identical"? That there can only be one apostle per age? Who had trouble letting go, here? Seems to me that he was free, and Nee and Lee never escaped their culture.

One has only to compare the Deputy Authority doctrine in the LC with 5 millennia of Chinese dynasties to under stand who never dropped their "culture."

The same thing happened in Rome. Why is it that, as Caesar's hold on power and exaltation as a demigod waned, the papal bishop of Rome rose in prominence and power to replace him as the Vicar of Christ, the Holy See, etc.

[TLFisher]

I was curious to see what was Wright Doyle's sources. They are as follows:

• Lilly Hsu-Unforgettable Memoirs: The Shanghai Local Church
• Lily Hsu-Watchman Nee and My Life
• Angus Kinnear-Against the Tide
• Wing-hung Lam-A Dictionary of Asian Christianity
• Dana Roberts-Secrets of Watchman Nee
• Lian Xi-Redeemed by Fire

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is one thing that always bothers me about Nee's and Lee's story-telling about the beginnings of the "Recovery" in China. I always heard about those dire, dead, deplorable, and dreaded denominations in China during the early 20th century. Never did I hear Nee or Lee appreciate all the good works — hospitals, schools, missions -- built in China in the name of Jesus.

The more that I read about what was happening in China during Nee's time, the more I realize that there was so much else going on. Because Nee was an influential figure even outside the LC, it has probably been easy for people to overlook everything else that was going on in China during that time.

I don't doubt that some of Nee's work was beneficial, but I notice an agenda starting with Nee which carried over to Lee. They were out to give themselves more credit than anyone else and to discredit anyone who could be considered a rival.

Sadly, all the good works that were being done in places like China by missionaries during that time were deemed to be meaningless by Nee. Had he not been so quick to dismiss such things, maybe he could have appreciated them for what they were.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The more that I read about what was happening in China during Nee's time, the more I realize that there was so much else going on. Because Nee was an influential figure even outside the LC, it has probably been easy for people to overlook everything else that was going on in China during that time.

I don't doubt that some of Nee's work was beneficial, but I notice an agenda starting with Nee which carried over to Lee. They were out to give themselves more credit than anyone else and to discredit anyone who could be considered a rival.

Originally Posted by Terry

I was curious to see what was Wright Doyle's sources. They are as follows:

• Lilly Hsu-Unforgettable Memoirs: The Shanghai Local Church
• Lily Hsu-Watchman Nee and My Life
• Angus Kinnear-Against the Tide
• Wing-hung Lam-A Dictionary of Asian Christianity
• Dana Roberts-Secrets of Watchman Nee
• Lian Xi-Redeemed by Fire

There are more sources out there, which give lie to Lee's simplistic and self-serving narrative, "Then on the virgin soil of China, God raised up Watchman Nee..."

I googled "Watchman Nee - Leland Wang - Dana Roberts" and the fourth hit was a 2000 PhD thesis on Chinese Christian missiology, and the subsequent emergence of the indigenous Chinese church, circa 1900-1949, which (lo and behold) wasn't limited to Watchman Nee. The author was a participant and witness of many events and personalities covered in the thesis.

Originally Posted by Moses Lee-Kung Yu

This study is a historical and theological analysis of aspects of the development of the Chinese indigenous churches from the missionary movement from the year 1900 to 1949. I was born in 1920 and entered Christian ministry gradually during this period. There were important events and influential persons with whom I had personal experiences, so this history relates also to my life story.

I am a third-generation Christian. My father was educated under Dr. Calvin Mateer, who was the president of Kwang Win Christian College. He was taught by Dr. Mateer himself, and received music instruction from Mrs. Mateer. After his graduation from college, my father taught at the Quaker-run Friends Academy. I grew up and received my basic education at this evangelical academy. Hence, my family background and early life was characterized by a close association with missions and missionaries.

When the Sino-Japanese War started at 1937, we had severely limited choices as we were in the midst of thousands of refugees. By faith we walked 1300 lis (Chinese "miles") inland and to the western region of China. My father was killed by a Japanese bomb at the Christian and Missionary Alliance church at Kweilin (Kwangxi).

My growth and development at a Christian were closely linked to the revival movement in evangelical churches and missions which reached its peak in the years 1930-1940. Of special importance is a great revival meeting in 1925 led by a great evangelist of that time, Leland Wong. Many young people, who were destined to have a great impact on the Chinese church, consecrated their lives to the service of God as a result of that meeting. Among them were Andrew Gih, Chow Chih-Yu, Alice Lan, Betty Hu, Lu Xuan, Timothy Chao, Zu Kwie Shen and others. I became acquainted to most of them. I also heard John Sung, Watchman Nee, and Wang Ming Tao preach, and witnessed the ordination of Rev. Dr. Jia Yu Ming. All of these people influenced me greatly, and after the death of my father I consecrated myself to full-time ministry.

For five years I participated in the Christian college student movement as co-worker with Calvin Chao. Through the student movement the quality and standard of Chinese ministers was raised from a basic high school level to higher education for ministers. Writing about developments in the Chinese Church between 1900 and 1949 thus reminds me about things and persons very close and dear to me and this partly motivated my choice of this thesis topic.

One point of note, more explicit in Roberts' biography, is that Leland Wang, another of Miss Barber's students, appears initially in the lead, circa 1925 and for some reason Nee broke off with him. It seems that it wasn't Nee initially taking the lead with Wang refusing to follow, but the opposite. I can only presume that Watchman Nee found some doctrinal/procedural reason to separate himself from Leland Wang's leadership. And it's not that Leland Wang subsequently disappeared from the gospel narrative; on the contrary he remained a noteworthy figure. He just disappeared from Witness Lee's narrative; he didn't advance Lee's agenda, and therefore didn't exist. In Lee's narrative, only Watchman Nee had emerged functionally intact from Miss Barber's School of Exceedingly Strict Discipline.

Regarding Watchman Nee's copying extensive sections of others' materials without attribution, Yu quotes the editor's preface to the 1932 edition of The Spiritual Man:

Originally Posted by Yu p.114

In the first edition, it was not that these differentiations [i.e. matters covered] were unknown. Rather, it was thought that, if the underlying spiritual truths and principles are correct, then the terminology used were not of the essence. Even the amendments for this edition initially did not include those differences. It was only a few days ago that the Lord specifically pointed this out to me... I also hope that, in the future, all these changes can be implemented across the board to all publications."

In other words, Nee copied verbatim, and didn't change the wording, and didn't attribute. As the editor so delicately put it, ''the terminology used were not of the essence''... nor apparently were attributions. But, the editor continues, now that the work has become popular, we acknowledge this defect and at some point hope to correct it.

Yu also notes that in "The Normal Christian Church Life", written 10 years later, Nee refers to original source materials and references. (p.117) So Nee eventually learned the necessary rudiments of scholarship. I think that Nigel Tomes' article on Lee's plagiarism shows a similar trajectory: don't use quotation marks or attribution unless you think that circumstances force your hand.

Also, in the first pages, Yu gives extensive coverage to the deep and widespread anti-Western sentiment which led to various localized or nativist Chinese Christian expressions. "The denominations" neatly coincided with foreign cultural hegemony. How convenient.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The more that I read about what was happening in China during Nee's time, the more I realize that there was so much else going on. Because Nee was an influential figure even outside the LC, it has probably been easy for people to overlook everything else that was going on in China during that time.

I don't doubt that some of Nee's work was beneficial, but I notice an agenda starting with Nee which carried over to Lee. They were out to give themselves more credit than anyone else and to discredit anyone who could be considered a rival.

Sadly, all the good works that were being done in places like China by missionaries during that time were deemed to be meaningless by Nee. Had he not been so quick to dismiss such things, maybe he could have appreciated them for what they were.

Very shortly after my first LC meeting, I came across Kinnear's biography of Nee, Against the Tide. The book title corresponded with whatever else I had gleaned at the time, so I looked forward to reading it. I happened to mention the book to a Chinese elder in Cleveland, who seemed alarmed at my choice of reading material, as a new member of the church in Cleveland.

He assured me that the book had "more than 200 major errors," which shocked me at the time, and so I promptly discarded the paperback. I never did hear who had determined all those errors, but I'm sure it was Lee. Since the only available history on Nee that I knew of at the time was Kinnear's, I, like every other LC adherent, was left with Lee's oral traditions of Nee.

Like everything else related to Lee, we are always confronted with the stark choice: either only Witness Lee is faithfully accurate and truthful and all others pernicious liars, or vice versa.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Like everything else related to Lee, we are always confronted with the stark choice: either only Witness Lee is faithfully accurate and truthful and all others pernicious liars, or vice versa.

Then there's what Witness Lee spoke in Taipei 1990 as found in the foreward of The Mysteries of God's New Testament Economy :

"The book The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion includes my spoken messages, but its content was edited afterward by me personally. I have carefully checked all the facts and have tried my best to be accurate, to be without any mistakes. In addition to an account of the beginning and development of the whole period of the rebellion, the content of that book includes personal testimonies from over thirty brothers. Therefore, concerning this storm, I have spoken the clarifying and concluding word that I needed to speak. I have absolutely no more interest in talking about this matter. This matter now stops here. I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore. It does not deserve any more mentioning."

Ohio, based on the quoted text I believe it's the vice versa.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Therefore, concerning this storm, I have spoken the clarifying and concluding word that I needed to speak. I have absolutely no more interest in talking about this matter. This matter now stops here. I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore. It does not deserve any more mentioning."

Ohio, based on the quoted text I believe it's the vice versa.

The blendeds claim that they follow WL absolutely, so why is it that they can't resist the incessant vague references to times of 'turmoil' or 'rebellion' bygone? WL told them to not speak of it anymore.

The fact of the matter is, the LC is a system where the constant rewriting of history has become necessary for the survival of the movement. The blendeds know this more than anyone. If there was a way for LCers to become aware of on a broad scale of the truth of all the events that have been covered up, the very existence of the movement could be at stake.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The fact of the matter is, the LC is a system where the constant rewriting of history has become necessary for the survival of the movement. The blendeds know this more than anyone. If there was a way for LCers to become aware of on a broad scale of the truth of all the events that have been covered up, the very existence of the movement could be at stake.

I recently watched a program about Joseph Stalin whose paranoia was legendary. He would assassinate his lieutenants just for becoming too popular with the people, though still absolutely loyal to him. His historians were constantly rewriting history to expunge all those who got bumped off, and then his photographers had to go back over all the photographs and carefully remove them from sight.

Lee was similarly paranoid, as was TC.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I recently watched a program about Joseph Stalin whose paranoia was legendary. He would assassinate his lieutenants just for becoming too popular with the people, though still absolutely loyal to him. His historians were constantly rewriting history to expunge all those who got bumped off, and then his photographers had to go back over all the photographs and carefully remove them from sight.

Lee was similarly paranoid, as was TC.

One is only paranoid when you think you have something that someone else can take away. TC and WL must have always been looking over their shoulders at up and coming brothers who could take their place.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I recently watched a program about Joseph Stalin whose paranoia was legendary. He would assassinate his lieutenants just for becoming too popular with the people, though still absolutely loyal to him. His historians were constantly rewriting history to expunge all those who got bumped off, and then his photographers had to go back over all the photographs and carefully remove them from sight.

Lee was similarly paranoid, as was TC.

Lee's history is punctuated by purges of his closest coworkers. In many cases, I don't think they were ever threats to him, but like you say, he was paranoid nonetheless. Maybe the current crop of blendeds would have suffered the same fate as others did had Lee lived longer.

[NewManLiving]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I recently watched a program about Joseph Stalin whose paranoia was legendary. He would assassinate his lieutenants just for becoming too popular with the people, though still absolutely loyal to him. His historians were constantly rewriting history to expunge all those who got bumped off, and then his photographers had to go back over all the photographs and carefully remove them from sight.

Lee was similarly paranoid, as was TC.

It is quite apparent to anyone who has read and studied the history and evidence concerning Witness Lee's life that he had a large ego and a short temper; Often destroying those that he considered his opposers. Even worse is the fact that he actually appears to believe the lies that he presented in his slanderous book. This indicates a mind and personality that loves power to the point of being delusional. The blendeds are now continuing this legacy. May the Lord have mercy

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very shortly after my first LC meeting, I came across Kinnear's biography of Nee, Against the Tide. The book title corresponded with whatever else I had gleaned at the time, so I looked forward to reading it. I happened to mention the book to a Chinese elder in Cleveland, who seemed alarmed at my choice of reading material, as a new member of the church in Cleveland.

He assured me that the book had "more than 200 major errors," which shocked me at the time, and so I promptly discarded the paperback. I never did hear who had determined all those errors, but I'm sure it was Lee. Since the only available history on Nee that I knew of at the time was Kinnear's, I, like every other LC adherent, was left with Lee's oral traditions of Nee.

Like everything else related to Lee, we are always confronted with the stark choice: either only Witness Lee is faithfully accurate and truthful and all others pernicious liars, or vice versa.

It is clear that even dating back to the time of Nee, there was a consistent effort to color history a certain way. It all started with the promoting of a man and a ministry. Much of the turmoil surrounding Nee's later life wasn't made known until many years later. Sad to say, books with titles like Seer of the Divine Revelation in the Present Age didn't seem suspicious to me until I realized that there were negative aspects to Nee.

Regarding the various biographies of Nee, it would seem like Lily Hsu's book is one that LSM might view as a threat. This begs the question of why a positive book like Against the Tide would have provoked a strong reaction so many years ago. I haven't read that book, but I can assume that it doesn't elevate Nee to the status of a MOTA or a Seer of the Divine Revelation in the Present Age. That is probably the issue right there. The supposed 'inaccuracies' are just an excuse. It doesn't present the LSM sanctioned history, therefore it is viewed as borderline poisonous even though it likely paints Nee in a positive light.

LCers could manage nothing less than to view Nee as the MOTA. They have gone to great lengths to get him mentioned in congress. In the LC people are told that Nee influenced millions of Christians in China and beyond. If such claims are true, that is a better legacy than anyone could ask for (and we know LCers care about legacy). It really makes one wonder why they still feel the need to sensationalize Nee. It's not like Nee is unknown outside the LC. At any rate, it is very telling how much the LC is concerned with promoting legacy.