How Much To Throw Out?

[HERn]

Just heard that one of my family members with saints from his LC went to Germany to preach the gospel to Syrian refugees. I hope that what they preach is the gospel of Jesus and not the gospel of WL.

[HERn]

I remember RK once preaching and criticizing Billy Graham for having a highway named after him in North Carolina. I doubt that Billy could could control NC politics. Although Billy was a fundamentalist he united many Protestant groups and even broke the racial barrier. WL on the other hand was a divider and condemner of every group not under his control. I don't know anyone who is a follower of Billy, but there are thousands that follow WL.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by HERn

I remember RK once preaching and criticizing Billy Graham for having a highway named after him in North Carolina. I doubt that Billy could could control NC politics. Although Billy was a fundamentalist he united many Protestant groups and even broke the racial barrier. WL on the other hand was a divider and condemner of every group not under his control. I don't know anyone who is a follower of Billy, but there are thousands that follow WL.

Why is it Billy Graham is criticized so much in the local churches? Is it because of his effective evangelism?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by HERn

Just heard that one of my family members with saints from his LC went to Germany to preach the gospel to Syrian refugees. I hope that what they preach is the gospel of Jesus and not the gospel of WL.

I have seen a good amount of propaganda about this on Facebook, not particular to the Syrian refugees, but to Germany. Apparently the Lord is "recovering" his testimony in Stuttgart. From these forums I discovered that the local church in Stuttgart basically dissipated in the late 80's. Here they are 30 years later, barely starting again from square one, and leaders are using what little is actually happening as some sort of "proof" that the Lord is "moving".

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen a good amount of propaganda about this on Facebook, not particular to the Syrian refugees, but to Germany. Apparently the Lord is "recovering" his testimony in Stuttgart. From these forums I discovered that the local church in Stuttgart basically dissipated in the late 80's. Here they are 30 years later, barely starting again from square one, and leaders are using what little is actually happening as some sort of "proof" that the Lord is "moving".

It is about refugees. There was a giant push for this during the recent Winter Training. You can track their effort here: https://www.facebook.com/germanyupdate

In the LC, the current interpretation of recent events is that the massive influx of Middle Eastern refugees is to accelerate the "Lord's move to Europe." Last year, LC leaders responded by beginning translation work of LSM materials into Farsi and Arabic, starting German and Arabic language lessons at the FTTA, and sending teams of LC members to Germany to visit refugee centers beginning in January. The trips are still ongoing.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

It is about refugees. There was a giant push for this during the recent Winter Training. You can track their effort here: https://www.facebook.com/germanyupdate

In the LC, the current interpretation of recent events is that the massive influx of Middle Eastern refugees is to accelerate the "Lord's move to Europe." Last year, LC leaders responded by beginning translation work of LSM materials into Farsi and Arabic, starting German and Arabic language lessons at the FTTA, and sending teams of LC members to Germany to visit refugee centers beginning in January. The trips are still ongoing.

Thanks Koinonia, this sounds good. Many on here have complained that the LC only seeks college educated good building material. Now we have an example of the LC reaching out to some of the less fortunate. It would be great to see the gospel reaching the Muslim people. Thanks for providing that information. Do you have anything else that can help us understand? All the best!

[HERn]

Well, I just read the following on Facebook.

"Please pray for this brother that he would be fully brought into the church life and that he would be a gospel seed to his friends."

Being fully brought into the church life is a worrisome sectarian divisive statement, I think. It really means to come under the ministry of WL as promulgated by the blended brothers and elders. It also means to submit yourself to the elders and become one with their thinking, practice, and opinions. It is a fully loaded phrase that that much could be written about. I'm throwing out the notion that the LSM LCs is the only place new Christians should be brought in to. Sorry for using Billy Graham again, but at the end of his meeting I believe there were "counsellors" from many denominations praying with people. I don't think any one denomination was emphasized as the one to bring someone fully into.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by HERn

Well, I just read the following on Facebook.

"Please pray for this brother that he would be fully brought into the church life and that he would be a gospel seed to his friends."

Being fully brought into the church life is a worrisome sectarian divisive statement, I think. It really means to come under the ministry of WL as promulgated by the blended brothers and elders. It also means to submit yourself to the elders and become one with their thinking, practice, and opinions. It is a fully loaded phrase that that much could be written about. I'm throwing out the notion that the LSM LCs is the only place new Christians should be brought in to. Sorry for using Billy Graham again, but at the end of his meeting I believe there were "counsellors" from many denominations praying with people. I don't think any one denomination was emphasized as the one to bring someone fully into.

I am convinced that the average LCer (and especially the average FTTA "church kid") sees no reason to entertain a spiritual conversation with anyone but to try to reel the person in.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by HERn

Well, I just read the following on Facebook.

"Please pray for this brother that he would be fully brought into the church life and that he would be a gospel seed to his friends."

Being fully brought into the church life is a worrisome sectarian divisive statement, I think. It really means to come under the ministry of WL as promulgated by the blended brothers and elders. It also means to submit yourself to the elders and become one with their thinking, practice, and opinions. It is a fully loaded phrase that that much could be written about. I'm throwing out the notion that the LSM LCs is the only place new Christians should be brought in to. Sorry for using Billy Graham again, but at the end of his meeting I believe there were "counsellors" from many denominations praying with people. I don't think any one denomination was emphasized as the one to bring someone fully into.

The attitude for years has been if a person receives the Lord in a LC setting, but doesn't fully come into the church life it's been a waste of time.
Someone like Billy Graham has been a subject of ridicule in the local churches at least since the early 1980's I can recall. I can only suspect his evangelism has been effective since the 1940's and he doesn't push a ministry.
Perhaps LC leaders are jealous and envious the recovery cannot match a fraction of Billy Graham's evangelism work.

[NewManLiving]

Originally Posted by Koinonia

It is about refugees. There was a giant push for this during the recent Winter Training. You can track their effort here: https://www.facebook.com/germanyupdate

In the LC, the current interpretation of recent events is that the massive influx of Middle Eastern refugees is to accelerate the "Lord's move to Europe." Last year, LC leaders responded by beginning translation work of LSM materials into Farsi and Arabic, starting German and Arabic language lessons at the FTTA, and sending teams of LC members to Germany to visit refugee centers beginning in January. The trips are still ongoing.

The problem is that these people will be spoon-fed Witness Lee and not necessarily Christ. In other words, it's not good enough to accept and believe in the Lord, you also need to accept only their ministry and all that goes with it --unreservedly. So what you have is more LSM franchise assemblies composed of only those who accept WL as the infallible MOTA. If you do not fall into this category, ( you happen to have a rational brain ) then you will be cast aside - even if you are the most absolute for the Lord. There is nothing in the New Testament that sets up this type of assembly.

It will be interesting to see the result of all this. It is a very bold statement to declare (in essence) that the refugee crisis is God's way of adding to LSM churches

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by NewManLiving

The problem is that these people will be spoon-fed Witness Lee and not necessarily Christ. In other words, it's not good enough to accept and believe in the Lord, you also need to accept only their ministry and all that goes with it --unreservedly. So what you have is more LSM franchise assemblies composed of only those who accept WL as the infallible MOTA. If you do not fall into this category, ( you happen to have a rational brain ) then you will be cast aside - even if you are the most absolute for the Lord. There is nothing in the New Testament that sets up this type of assembly.

It will be interesting to see the result of all this. It is a very bold statement to declare (in essence) that the refugee crisis is God's way of adding to LSM churches

NewManLiving, it took me years to accept local churches are essentially franchises. Just like McDonalds, Burger King, or where my 16 year old works at; DairyQueen. Just like these examples, LSM franchises have a particular menu it's consumers must accept. Don't care for LSM publications? Just as NewManLiving indicated, you will be cast aside.
It may be those absolute for the Lord will be categorized as "lukewarm" all because they are not absolute for "the ministry".

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Terry

NewManLiving, it took me years to accept local churches are essentially franchises. Just like McDonalds, Burger King, or where my 16 year old works at; DairyQueen. Just like these examples, LSM franchises have a particular menu it's consumers must accept. Don't care for LSM publications? Just as NewManLiving indicated, you will be cast aside.
It may be those absolute for the Lord will be categorized as "lukewarm" all because they are not absolute for "the ministry".

There aren't any formal franchise papers or documents, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if the church in Paducah contacted the LSM blendeds about being a local church the blendeds would want to know where they stand on THE ministry, receiving only LSM publications, and not collaborating with the daughters of the great prostitute. The blendeds and their sycophant elders will eventually confess on bended knees that Christ and His move and His Body are much, much, much greater than the sect known as the lords recovery.

[HERn]

This is a response to Igzy's excellent new (April 2, 2016) thread Summing Up. The reason I posted my response here is because it focuses so much on my personal situation. If admin wants to move it to Summing Up that's fine.



Thanks Igzy, that was really good. Your first point reminds me of what Aron often says that God is like a "businessman" that can use everything to "turn a profit", so to speak. He might also be like a physician who may prescribe a dangerous drug for a season to bring about long term healing. The latter is true in my case. The Lord hooked me up with some LC brothers and sisters whose spark for loving the Lord and people had not been snuffed out by LSM legalism and the blended's pride. My love for the Lord deepened and became more vital. When the Lord decided that the "treatment" was finished He pulled the curtains back and exposed the ugly naked unrighteousness of some of the local elders, and then of WL and the LSM blendeds. Kind of like going "cold turkey" and having withdrawal pains months on end. Our God may be a businessman or a physician, but He definitely is not a "sugar-daddy"; just consider the suffering he allowed His Son to experience, or the torture and martyring of many dear and gentle brothers and sisters. It truly is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10
…31It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated.… NIV from Biblehub