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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Harold,

As long as the current two parties survive, the others will be gnats flying around the piles the two big ones are. It will only be with the effective destruction of the units that are the Republican and Democratic parties that there would be any meaningful movement away from them. If they collapse, there will be alternatives provided. And as long as there are at least two significantly different groups formed out of the one, then the crawl to the bottom will begin. We will look more like the British system, or maybe even the German system where there is always some kind of coalition between two of the parties before there is any real change. And sometimes the notion of "strange bedfellows" is very appropriate. It might not always be the most conservative and the second most conservative that gets together (or the other end) it might be the two in the middle, or one of the extremes and the one in the middle but toward the other end.

I kinda wish that were an option.

And 8 years ago I would have been very happy to vote for the McCain/Lieberman ticket. I know that neither was conservative enough for the right or liberal enough for the left. But it often turns out that it is in the broad no-man's land in the middle that real solutions are found.

Alas, it was not to be. And putting Palin on the ticket did nothing to bring the far right into the fold for McCain.

So now it seems they have what they want. And it isn't going to be much better. The GOP has been in the habit of shooting itself in the foot way too often.

The speed at which our country is moving left is frightening. I doubt there will ever be another Republican president. What the Democrats got going for them is just overwhelming.

• The progressive liberals control most major universities
• The progressive liberals control the mainstream media
• The progressive liberals control the minority vote
• The progressive liberals control the immigrant vote with the borders wide open
• The progressive liberals control nearly every major city
• The progressive liberals control the unions
• The progressive liberals control all those on the government dole
• The progressive liberals control nearly all the sports and entertainment icons
• The progressive liberals control the voting process, successfully stopping all attempts at voter registration ID's

Those in the conservative movement just don't "fight" as well as the liberals do. It's harder to fight when things like morality and a conscience restrict you.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The speed at which our country is moving left is frightening.

I partly agree. It is heavily moving left.

Or at least the organized part of it is moving left.

And there is what I believe is the problem. There is plenty of "right" but not organized. Mostly in disarray.

Now before I move on, let me say that while there are some litmus test issues that we like to rant about relative to the left, the left is not uniformly for any particular thing. And just because it is liberal does not make it evil or bad. Just not what we on the right think is the better way to go.

But they do one thing that the right just can't get through their thick skulls. They tend to be more supportive of whoever is chosen as their presidential candidate. I understand that the final outcome is heavily about how many independents vote one way or the other.

But with some regularity, the Republicans refuse to get along with each other and a reasonably significant portion of them end out with a splinter group running for office as an independent who gains enough support to siphon more than enough support away that they become irrelevant. Even a lot of support from independents doesn't help. And the internal squabbles are often reasons to reject helping the "mainstream" Republican out.

We think of the Democrats as being these hopelessly ideological people determined to bring socialism to America. True for a few, but not the majority. They are all over the spectrum, with a large number just a little left of center.

But they tend to stick together unless something is seriously wrong. (And my idea of seriously wrong is not necessarily theirs.)

But on the conservative side of the spectrum are a bunch of silos. McCain was too "liberal" for the far right. (Of course "liberal" is relative here. McCain is just on the left side of the right, not the left side of the whole.) So a lot of "why vote?" or voting for independents. Palin didn't help. Someone less extreme was probably the better choice.

But if the Republicans can't decide that the overall stance of the Party is more important than which person is the presidential candidate then we are a lost cause. It won't matter how corrupt we think Hillary, Obama, or anyone else is.

And to top it off, this year we have our own version of corrupt. A different kind of corrupt. And (in my opinion) unfit to lead. So maybe fit to lead, saddled with a Republican Congress and Senate (hopefully) outweighs questioned (but never proved) allegations of corrupt actions over the years of clawing to the top. I know there were some things about Bill that are true and bring up the "unfit" issue. But still not the same as some of what I see in Trump. There were too many good choices but instead we get the guy who pulls at the heart-strings of people who want there to be some kind of "never been a politician" in the White House.

As for "moving left," my question is "what is it about "left" that is so scary that we would rather put a guy like Trump in the White House? Do we think that God will bring in the Babylonians to carry us away? For what? taxing more and spreading it around (very inefficiently) to those who have less?

I agree that there is too much. And the notion of what requires help may be way to high. But there are real needs that still have not been addressed. And if we declare that the church should be doing it, then maybe the church should get busy and do it. Not just some of it. Not just what they are doing now and gloat about it. Do it all. Otherwise, having government do it is probably how it is going to happen.

And the local level won't work. At the local level the need is where the poor are and the money is generally where they are not. So something broader than local has to happen. Some kind of socialism is inevitable — unless we intend to be the "be fed and clothed" brand of people.

Why are we afraid? I'm not saying that nothing can go wrong. But what is it that makes Christians — the people who believe in eternal life — so afraid of this life that they need to amass arsenals of assault weapons. What makes the people who are first commanded to love God and then to love their neighbor as themselves them so mean that they carry hateful placards deriding people they think are immoral?

And the fear is being preached from the pulpits of too many churches.

Are we going to rise up, sing "Onward, Christian Soldiers" and take the country back at gun point?

There's the most loving representatives of God. Just like he made us to be. (NOT)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The speed at which our country is moving left is frightening. I doubt there will ever be another Republican president. What the Democrats got going for them is just overwhelming.

• The progressive liberals control most major universities
• The progressive liberals control the mainstream media
• The progressive liberals control the minority vote
• The progressive liberals control the immigrant vote with the borders wide open
• The progressive liberals control nearly every major city
• The progressive liberals control the unions
• The progressive liberals control all those on the government dole
• The progressive liberals control nearly all the sports and entertainment icons
• The progressive liberals control the voting process, successfully stopping all attempts at voter registration ID's

Those in the conservative movement just don't "fight" as well as the liberals do. It's harder to fight when things like morality and a conscience restrict you.

Please don't take insult if I roll on the floor laughing. How right can you go? Do all the shopping carts pull to the left too? Seems to me, by your assessment above, the liberals have taken completely over.

Of course we know that's not true. Kentucky just elected a pubbie gov. And lot's of states are republican. Of course, if you're far right, even most of the pubbies are liberals ; they're RINOs.

It reminds of growing up in the Baptist church. Every now and then we'd have a preacher come and speak on the evils of communism. I remember once, after the scary preaching, turning to my mother and saying, "Mommy the commies have taken over everywhere." Her response was, "Yes they have."

And what's this line mean : "It's harder to fight when things like morality and a conscience restrict you"???

Are you suggesting conservatives are the only ones with morals and a conscience?

[OBW]

The progressive liberals control most major universities If so, only relative to a small part of the liberal arts colleges, not the rest of the university

The progressive liberals control the mainstream media Except Fox News

The progressive liberals control the minority vote Or the minority vote instructs the liberals. Conservative don't even listen.

The progressive liberals control the immigrant vote with the borders wide open. Borders are not wide open I might agree that a wall could be useful. But it should be coupled with a very different system for letting our neighbors in. We really don't want most of those 12M (or however many illegal Hispanics are here now) to go back. The economy would be crippled.

The progressive liberals control nearly every major city Only if the people there vote them in.

The progressive liberals control the unions Sure it is not the other way around?

The progressive liberals control all those on the government dole Or do the liberals just get their vote because they don't deride them for not picking themselves up by the bootstraps? And because they responded rather than assaulted?

The progressive liberals control nearly all the sports and entertainment icons Only relevant for the ignorant. And to the extent that the conservatives have sports and entertainment icons, we abuse their irrelevant comments just as much.

The progressive liberals control the voting process, successfully stopping all attempts at voter registration ID's You might have something here. But this was a long list to get to something that is simply bad v simply not going your (our) way.


The question is why do the conservative refuse to respond to people in need? Why do they get behind people who insult the parents of war heroes just because of their ethnicity? Why do they fail to deal with immigration issues other than to call everyone not born here names and vow to simply shut the borders? (This from a nation of immigrants.)

The conservative position is becoming more and more isolationist. (Except that we are happy to send a few soldiers anywhere to blow the bejeebers out of anyone we consider an enemy. Even better if an 18-year-old kid with a joy stick can do it via drone from a facility in LA.) And each of our periods of isolation has ended poorly.

[awareness]

I read a few days ago that many of Trump's followers are into conspiracy theories. Hey, everything is a conspiracy. Shadow powers -- like the shadow government -- are the ones actually pulling the real strings, behind the scenes/seeings. So says one ubiquitous conspiracy.

Trump has claimed numerous times "It's rigged." There you have it, those invisible people again -- mystical people seems -- by virtue of their existence in the unseen.

But the unseen does exist. As was revealed when the DNC emails were hacked (by scary Russia, surely). And they did reveal a conspiracy ... against "feeling the Burn" ol' Bernie. I think secretly they disliked him because they don't trust those that are authentic. Authentic scares them.

And turns out it is so. On the flaky dubious right we have another one that's popular precisely for not being PC, and is also authentic. That indeed is scary. Why? Because Trump is unpredictable, to say the least. We never know when he's just being sarcastic. He can even shoot of a nuke and say it was sarcasm, he says. Recently he said "I will never lie to you," and he apologized (for what we don't know). Is that more sarcasm? Will he tomorrow say that he was only joking? We don't know do we?

So I don't know. Are Christian supporters of Trump made gullible to such highfalutin -- in his case empty -- promises because they're primed by their belief system, that's full of them? After all, Satan, the prince and god of this world is, the quintessential conspirator, pulling all the strings that matter, behind the scenes/seeings.

Or might it be just because he's hard on Mooozlims (they even get kicked out of his rallies)?

And where's that religious right ... that's captured the spotlight in elections passed? It's like they've gone underground -- resorting perchance to conspiratorial strategies -- against abortion and same sex marriage, and the gay conspiracy to take over the world?

Trump has knocked all that out of whack, and akilter. But not just that. Ohio thinks there won't be another pubbie president. After Trump there might not be a GOP at all. Trump is not a Republican. He's supported the Clintons in the past, and is actually a democrat. But because he's managed to become the republican nominee the GOP has to hold their nose, swallow that bitter pill, and still endorse him. No wonder they're worried he might be the cause of them losing majority in the Senate. But it's not him. It's them. The pubbles are looking like they need their heads examined. Rubio even said recently he stood by his claim in the primaries that, Trump is a con man. But he still endorses him. That's just plain, and obvious to all, crazy. And the same goes for majority leader Mitch McConnell. And to think, it could all turn out to be one big sarcasm. Haha pubbies. The joke's on you ... and your whole party ... which is falling, more than seems, into smithereens.

And then we have lying Hillary. The Hildabeast. Hilla the Hun, as Bill calls her.

Can a Christian in all good conscience vote for any of this? If so, maybe not just they, but all of America, needs to have it's head's examined.

Sorry for that rant. I'm just a little worked up and conflicted about all of this. And ha. It's all sarcasm. Like this election.

[awareness]

This can't possibly be true. It's coming from a liberal site.

But bro Ohio mentioned morals and conscience and :

New Book Reveals Trump Is Actually Sleazier and Slimier Than We Ever Thought
“There is no moral core inside Donald Trump."
http://www.alternet.org/election-201...e-ever-thought

[awareness]

But Falwell Jr. thinks Trump is our present day Churchill.

From a Christian (conservative) news site:
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Jerr.../20/id/744424/

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

This can't possibly be true. It's coming from a liberal site.

But bro Ohio mentioned morals and conscience and :

New Book Reveals Trump Is Actually Sleazier and Slimier Than We Ever Thought
“There is no moral core inside Donald Trump."
http://www.alternet.org/election-201...e-ever-thought

Now where are those news articles about the scores of Trump's former associates that have suddenly and mysteriously died?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

Why do they get behind people who insult the parents of war heroes just because of their ethnicity?

This highlights and magnifies all the complaints against Trump.

He has thin skin, and he speaks impulsively. That may work in business, behind closed doors, but not in politics with cameras rolling.

He should have got on camera immediately to praise this young Muslim soldier who died for his country. Then today people would not even know that Khizr Khan attacked Trump at the DNC.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Please don't take insult if I roll on the floor laughing. How right can you go? Do all the shopping carts pull to the left too? Seems to me, by your assessment above, the liberals have taken completely over. Of course we know that's not true. Kentucky just elected a pubbie gov. And lot's of states are republican.

Did I say completely? Did I mention state or local elections?

I said that I can't see another Republican President for a number of reasons. So I listed them.

Are you saying that the country has NOT moved left?

Didn't Obama signed up for DOMA, that is, until he was against it. (Pay no attention to what politicians say, only watch what they do.) And Gay marriage has now became the law of the land. Lot's of "movement" in a very short time.

Talking about the laws of the land. Why is it that so many liberal established laws are now passed in the scotus rather than congress. What good is Capitol Hill anyway?

Does that make me a conspiracy theorist? I was one of those after JFK got killed.

Your shopping cart needs an alignment. Let me recommend a good mechanic.