Reading the Bible does not Give us the Spirit

[Evangelical]

If the Scripture was that important for receiving the Spirit we should find at least one example. The fact is we cannot.

Does knowing and loving the Bible automatically give us the Spirit? Not according to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:27).

The eunuch was a worshiper of God, and obviously loved reading the Scripture. Yet it was not sufficient to grant him the Spirit.

The eunuch is another example of Piper not knowing the Bible. Piper's claim that loving the Bible gives us the Spirit is false.

According to Piper, more Spirit is a result of knowing and loving God's Word more. But it is possible for an illiterate person to have more Spirit than a highly qualified theologian, as Simon Peter might testify. Piper's doctrine is bordering on bibliolatry which is prevalent in Christianity.

In Christianity and society today, the Bible is often used as a tool of "superstition and magic" and for conjuring religious experiences, rather than for it's true intended purpose.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

If the Scripture was that important for receiving the Spirit we should find at least one example. The fact is we cannot.

Does knowing and loving the Bible automatically give us the Spirit? Not according to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:27).

The eunuch was a worshiper of God, and obviously loved reading the Scripture. Yet it was not sufficient to grant him the Spirit.

The eunuch is another example of Piper not knowing the Bible. Piper's claim that loving the Bible gives us the Spirit is false.

According to Piper, more Spirit is a result of knowing and loving God's Word more. But it is possible for an illiterate person to have more Spirit than a highly qualified theologian, as Simon Peter might testify. Piper's doctrine is bordering on bibliolatry which is prevalent in Christianity.

In Christianity and society today, the Bible is often used as a tool of "superstition and magic" and for conjuring religious experiences, rather than for it's true intended purpose.

You are simply proving the point that the Recovery Version and LSM's BFA are just money grabbing schemes.

[testallthings]

Evangelical,

it seems that for you there is no relationship between the Word of God and the Spirit. For me and many others the Word of God cannot be separated from God. After all He has been pleased to give us this precious book called the Bible (or the Holy Scriptures). Reading the Bible in a formal way, and without prayer, doesn't give us anything except some knowledge. There are probably many who are just doing that and I agree with you that it is like the Pharisees who read the Scriptures but didn't want to go to the Lord Jesus. You said that if we want to receive the Spirit we need to ask for Him. True. But if we ask in a formal way (like those who read the Bible just with their mind), will the Spirit come?

There are probably many more who having in their possession dozen of Bible rarely open them. Isn't this a bigger issue?

I believe that the Word leads us to God, and God to the Word, and the Word to God, and so on. In my previous post I always said that we have to come to the Word of God with prayer. Even when I mentioned G. Mueller's experience I mentioned prayer. Here is his own testimony:

The Study of Scripture
The Benefits of Meditation (1842)
WHILE I was staying at Nailsworth,16 it pleased the Lord to teach me a truth,
irrespective of human instrumentality as far as I know, the benefit of which I
have not lost—though now, while preparing the eighth edition for the press,
more than forty years have since passed away. The point is this: I saw more clearly than
ever that the first great and primary business to which I ought to attend every day was to
have my soul happy17 in the Lord. The first thing to be concerned about was not how
much I might serve the Lord, how I might glorify the Lord, but how I might get my soul
into a happy state, and how my inner man might be nourished. For I might seek to set
the truth before the unconverted, I might seek to benefit believers, I might seek to
relieve the distressed, I might in other ways seek to behave myself as it becomes a child
of God in this world; and yet, not being happy in the Lord, and not being nourished and
strengthened in my inner man day by day, all this might not be attended to in a right
spirit.
Before this time my practice had been at least for ten years previously, as an habitual
thing, to give myself to prayer after having dressed in the morning. Now I saw that the
most important thing I had to do was to give myself to the reading of the Word of God
and to meditate on it, that thus my heart might be comforted, encouraged, warned,
reproved, instructed; and that thus, whilst meditating, my heart might be brought into
experimental communion with the Lord. I began, therefore, to meditate on the New
Testament from the beginning, early in the morning. The first thing I did, after having
asked in a few words the Lord’s blessing upon His precious Word, was to begin to
meditate on the Word of God, searching, as it were, into every verse to get blessing out
of it—not for the sake of the public ministry of the Word, not for the sake of preaching
on what I had meditated upon, but for the sake of obtaining food for my own soul. The
result I have found to be almost invariably this: that after a very few minutes my soul has
been led to confession, thanksgiving, intercession, or supplication; so that though I did
not, as it were, give myself to prayer but to meditation, yet it turned almost immediately
more or less into prayer. When thus I have been for a while making confession,
intercession, or supplication, or have given thanks, I go on to the next words or verse,
turning all, as I go on, into prayer for myself or others, as the Word may lead to it; but
still continually keeping before me that food for my own soul is the object of my
meditation. The result of this is that there is always a good deal of confession,
thanksgiving, supplication, or intercession mingled with my meditation, and that my
inner man almost invariably is even sensibly nourished and strengthened, and that by
breakfast time, with rare exceptions, I am in a peaceful if not happy state of heart. Thus

16 Nailsworth – town in Gloucestershire, England.
17 happy – blessed; enjoying the presence and favor of God.

23
also the Lord is pleased to communicate unto me that which, very soon after, I have
found to become food for other believers, though it was not for the sake of the public
ministry of the Word that I gave myself to meditation, but for the profit of my own inner
man.
The difference then between my former practice and my present one is this:
Formerly, when I rose I began to pray as soon as possible, and generally spent all my
time till breakfast in prayer, or almost all the time. At all events, I almost invariably
began with prayer, except when I felt my soul to be more than usually barren, in which
case I read the Word of God for food, or for refreshment, or for a revival and renewal of
my inner man, before I gave myself to prayer. But what was the result? I often spent a
quarter of an hour, or half an hour, or even an hour on my knees, before being
conscious to myself of having derived comfort, encouragement, humbling of soul, etc.;
and often, after having suffered much from wandering of mind for the first ten minutes,
or a quarter of an hour, or even half an hour, I only then began really to pray. I scarcely
ever suffer now in this way. For my heart being flourished by the truth, being brought
into experimental fellowship with God, I speak to my Father, and to my Friend (vile
though I am, and unworthy of it!) about the things that He has brought before me in His
precious Word.
It often now astonishes me that I did not sooner see this. In no book did I ever read
about it. No public ministry ever brought the matter before me. No private intercourse18
with a brother stirred me up to this matter. And yet now, since God has taught me this
point, it is as plain to me as anything, that the first thing the child of God has to do
morning by morning is to obtain food for his inner man. As the outward man is not fit
for work for any length of time except we take food, and as this is one of the first things
we do in the morning, so it should be with the inner man. We should take food for that,
as everyone must allow. Now what is the food for the inner man?—not prayer but the
Word of God; and here again not the simple reading of the Word of God so that it only
passes through our minds, just as water runs through a pipe, but considering what we
read, pondering over it, and applying it to our hearts.
When we pray we speak to God. Now prayer, in order to be continued for any length
of time in any other than a formal manner, requires, generally speaking, a measure of
strength or godly desire. And the season, therefore, when this exercise of the soul can be
most effectually performed, is after the inner man has been nourished by meditation on
the Word of God, where we find our Father speaking to us, to encourage us, comfort us,
instruct us, humble us, reprove us. We may therefore profitably meditate with God’s
blessing, though we are ever so weak spiritually; nay, the weaker we are, the more we
need meditation for the strengthening of our inner man. There is thus far less to be
feared from wandering of mind, than if we give ourselves to prayer without having had
previously time for meditation.
18 intercourse – communion.
24
I dwell so particularly on this point because of the immense spiritual profit and
refreshment I am conscious of having derived from it myself, and I affectionately and
solemnly beseech all my fellow believers to ponder this matter. By the blessing of God I
ascribe to this mode the help and strength that I have had from God to pass in peace
through deeper trials in various ways than I had ever had before; and after having now
above forty years tried this way, I can most fully, in the fear of God, commend it. How
different when the soul is refreshed and made happy early in the morning, from what it
is when, without spiritual preparation, the service, the trials, and the temptations of the
day come upon one!

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See too George Müller: My Journal, also available from Chapel Library.
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http://www.georgemuller.org/articles.html
(emphasis added)



In my case, after having spent some time with the Lord and His Word, I have no desire for debate or discussion. I am sure you all can testify about this. There is still something to say about your post, but this one is already very long.

I hope all will enjoy G. Mueller's testimony and imitate this great man of God.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by testallthings

Evangelical,

it seems that for you there is no relationship between the Word of God and the Spirit. For me and many others the Word of God cannot be separated from God. After all He has been pleased to give us this precious book called the Bible (or the Holy Scriptures). Reading the Bible in a formal way, and without prayer, doesn't give us anything except some knowledge. There are probably many who are just doing that and I agree with you that it is like the Pharisees who read the Scriptures but didn't want to go to the Lord Jesus. You said that if we want to receive the Spirit we need to ask for Him. True. But if we ask in a formal way (like those who read the Bible just with their mind), will the Spirit come?

There are probably many more who having in their possession dozen of Bible rarely open them. Isn't this a bigger issue?

I believe that the Word leads us to God, and God to the Word, and the Word to God, and so on. In my previous post I always said that we have to come to the Word of God with prayer. Even when I mentioned G. Mueller's experience I mentioned prayer. Here is his own testimony:

testallthings,

To me the Word of God is the Spirit's inward speaking. So yes there is a relationship between the Word of God and the Spirit. The quote by Piper equates the amount of the Spirit with the amount of knowing God's Word, and we know that Piper believes God's Word = the Bible.

It is wrong to equate the measure of a person's spirituality with how much they know the Bible, as Piper has done. Whether it is Muller or anyone. The men God chose to use in the new testament were unlearned men. I can find many references where Jesus said "when you pray". Jesus taught his disciples to pray. There is no verse where Jesus said "when you read and study the Bible". Jesus and his disciples had prayer times together. We find no example in scripture of them sitting down together for a "bible study".

The majority of Christianity do not believe in the Holy Spirit's speaking for today. They say the Spirit ceased when the Bible was written. This was when their "Bible-god" was born.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The quote by Piper equates the amount of the Spirit with the amount of knowing God's Word, and we know that Piper believes God's Word = the Bible.

Piper knows full well that many look at the Bible wrongly, treating it as merely another book. Keep digging Evangelical and perhaps you will find those statements too. God's word is God speaking to us, the Logos becoming the Rhema.

Even Lee, your teacher, has said as much.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Piper knows full well that many look at the Bible wrongly, treating it as merely another book. Keep digging Evangelical and perhaps you will find those statements too. God's word is God speaking to us, the Logos becoming the Rhema.

Even Lee, your teacher, has said as much.

Lee and Nee properly divide the Bible from God's Word (God's inward speaking).

The majority of Christianity believe God's Word = the Bible, because to them the Spirit ceased or is no longer relevant since the bible was written.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Lee and Nee properly divide the Bible from God's Word (God's inward speaking).

The majority of Christianity believe God's Word = the Bible, because to them the Spirit ceased or is no longer relevant since the bible was written.

Wow, I don't know where you have been "in Christianity" to make this statement Evangelical. The majority of Christians I know believe God's Word = the Bible because they recognize it as being inspired by the Holy Spirit, and endevour to walk in and by the Spirit today (because He is absolutely relevant and essential to their Christian walk). I do know some who claim to be Christians with weird views like you cite, but that is certainly not the majority of Christians who believe God's word equals the Bible.