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[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you vote for someone you know to be a crook you are no longer a dupe, you are an accomplice.

6 months ago you could claim ignorance about Clinton (Hillary) saying only it has the appearance of evil but without the proof in front of me I don't want to jump to conclusions.

There is no doubt anymore. She is a crook. That is clearly the main appeal of Donald Trump is that Clinton is a crook.

So you are going to vote to put the female genital-grabbing con man in the White House? How do you reconcile that with your professed Christianity? If elected, he will have access to the nuclear codes? He obviously has poor impulse control. The man is a psychopath. How can you look at his business dealings and not conclude that he is a crook? The so-called "Trump University" was obviously a scam. In my judgment, Clinton is the lesser of two evils which is the political system has offered us.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

So you are going to vote to put the female genital-grabbing con man in the White House? How do you reconcile that with your professed Christianity? If elected, he will have access to the nuclear codes? He obviously has poor impulse control. The man is a psychopath. How can you look at his business dealings and not conclude that he is a crook? The so-called "Trump University" was obviously a scam. In my judgment, Clinton is the lesser of two evils which is the political system has offered us.

Why would you assume that?

There are 4 candidates. I ruled out Trump a long time ago.

When you vote you give credibility to the winner. I am not going to give credibility to either one of those candidates.

I haven't decided between the other two.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why would you assume that?
There are 4 candidates. I ruled out Trump a long time ago.
When you vote you give credibility to the winner. I am not going to give credibility to either one of those candidates.

I haven't decided between the other two.

I haven't decided on any of the four. They all look pretty bad to me. Is this the real world, or am I having a nightmare? America the greatest nation in the world? Don't make me laugh. We can't even find any good leaders.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I haven't decided on any of the four. They all look pretty bad to me. Is this the real world, or am I having a nightmare? America the greatest nation in the world? Don't make me laugh. We can't even find any good leaders.

We can find lots of good leaders, but the people chose these two. Not actually though, because the DNC is so corrupt, Bernie never had a chance. Then Frizilla Debbie W-S already got a cushy job with the Clintonistas. Total corruption.

That loud-mouthed, egotistical, businessman looks like the least of all evils.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why would you assume that?

There are 4 candidates. I ruled out Trump a long time ago.

When you vote you give credibility to the winner. I am not going to give credibility to either one of those candidates.

I haven't decided between the other two.

OK. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion. Only Trump or Clinton have a realistic chance of winning. There are a bunch of other candidates to choose from besides the four. You might want to look into that. I am primarily motivated to stop Trump who I consider the worst presidential candidate of a major party I have seen in my life time.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

OK. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion. Only Trump or Clinton have a realistic chance of winning. There are a bunch of other candidates to choose from besides the four. You might want to look into that. I am primarily motivated to stop Trump who I consider the worst presidential candidate of a major party I have seen in my life time.

Many considered Teddy Roosevelt to be the most dangerous, which is why they wanted him to be VP, seemingly a safe place to put him.

I am not going to give either one of them my vote. They may get elected, but not with my vote. If they are as bad as they appear then this is the beginning of the imperative to bring in significant reform to our political process.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Many considered Teddy Roosevelt to be the most dangerous, which is why they wanted him to be VP, seemingly a safe place to put him.

You're comparing TR to Trump? Sorry, I ain't buying that.

I am not going to give either one of them my vote. They may get elected, but not with my vote. If they are as bad as they appear then this is the beginning of the imperative to bring in significant reform to our political process.

I agree. Hopefully it's not too late. Regardless which of these candidates is elected the system is broken, the country is divided and we're in for some hard times.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

You're comparing TR to Trump? Sorry, I ain't buying that.

No, I'm not buying that either. A man of shining character vs a Cad.

No, I am comparing the people who were worried about TR with the people worried about Trump. My point is not that you shouldn't be worried about TR, my point is how difficult this is when you are in the midst of it. No doubt 5 years from now whatever the outcome everyone will have 20/20 vision.

Originally Posted by zeek

I agree. Hopefully it's not too late. Regardless which of these candidates is elected the system is broken, the country is divided and we're in for some hard times.

The system was breaking at the time of TR. We need to stand up. Something a la my dominionist doctrine.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

So you are going to vote to put the female genital-grabbing con man in the White House? How do you reconcile that with your professed Christianity? If elected, he will have access to the nuclear codes? He obviously has poor impulse control. The man is a psychopath. How can you look at his business dealings and not conclude that he is a crook? The so-called "Trump University" was obviously a scam. In my judgment, Clinton is the lesser of two evils which is the political system has offered us.

Hillary can't even get security clearance as an entry-level government clerk, and you want to give her nuclear codes.

Nobody has died a suspicious death at the hands of Trump, yet the body count of the Liberal Clinton Cult of Corrupt Criminals constantly grows.

I guess in your book gropers and thieves are worse than murderers and traitors.

Psychopathy: sometimes also known as sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.

Sounds like Bill Clinton.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Psychopathy: sometimes also known as sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.

Sounds like Bill Clinton.

It's a matter of degrees. Trump far surpasses Bill Clinton on the psychopathology scale.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

It's a matter of degrees. Trump far surpasses Bill Clinton on the psychopathology scale.

Doubtful, but hey, ole Bill is a liberal, so you give him a free pass.

How many women have already come forth claiming Bill raped, molested, or seduced them.

Where was Hillary, the champion of women, when we needed her?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doubtful, but hey, ole Bill is a liberal, so you give him a free pass.

How many women have already come forth claiming Bill raped, molested, or seduced them.

Where was Hillary, the champion of women, when we needed her?

Actually I voted for Ralph Nader in '96. But I haven't noticed that you're a guy who let's facts get in the way of your prejudices
Everyone has flaws including the candidates of the two major parties. In my judgement Trump's character flaws are worse than Hillary's. Evangelical Christians were so shocked at Bill Clinton's extramarital sexual activities but many seem to have no problem with Trump's nonconsensual pussy grabbing. What's up with that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Actually I voted for Ralph Nader in '96. But I haven't noticed that you're a guy who let's facts get in the way of your prejudices
Everyone has flaws including the candidates of the two major parties. In my judgement Trump's character flaws are worse than Hillary's. Evangelical Christians were so shocked at Bill Clinton's extramarital sexual activities but many seem to have no problem with Trump's nonconsensual pussy grabbing. What's up with that?

I'm more offended by your language.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm more offended by your language.

I was just quoting your guy Trump. Yet for some reason his sexual assaults don't offend you. Is it because he's a star and therefore he can do "anything" like he said?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Actually I voted for Ralph Nader in '96. But I haven't noticed that you're a guy who let's facts get in the way of your prejudices
Everyone has flaws including the candidates of the two major parties. In my judgement Trump's character flaws are worse than Hillary's. Evangelical Christians were so shocked at Bill Clinton's extramarital sexual activities but many seem to have no problem with Trump's nonconsensual pussy grabbing. What's up with that?

People have been told that they have to vote for one of these two and if they don't they are being irresponsible, etc.

If you subscribe to that then choosing to vote for one or the other may merely be that you have decided they are the "lesser of two evils".

I don't subscribe to that. I feel if you vote for someone then you are responsible for them.

If I don't vote for Trump or Clinton then I am not responsible for either one being elected. Instead the corporations that wheeled them out will be wholly responsible. The fewer that vote for either one the clearer this will be.

Catastrophes of administration lead to reform, revolt, or even revolution. These candidates were given to us by the corporations, they should be held accountable for the outcome.

[OBW]

My take is that one of the two majors will win (Hillary or Donald). But being from Texas where it is all but presumed that The Donald will win, to make a protest vote means voting for anyone else stands as a protest. I want the Republican Party to hear the displeasure that there is not more substantial oversight of who can run as president. I hope that Donald's margin is so slim that they take note. I am even willing to put up with whatever comes if too many protest. Even throwing the election to Congress.

And there are reasons that neither Hillary nor Donald are fit to be president. I hear of some small-time politician from either Utah or Nevada that could actually take Utah, and has been put on the ballot in many states plus is available as a pre-defined write-in in several more. I just might put my vote there. I have also heard that there were some open remarks by some to write-in Pence rather than vote for Donald.

We've had too many good reasons to disrespect our presidents for a significant part of the past 25 years. I can hope that the next 4 to 8 years will not be more of the same.

But as that great philosopher, Mick Jagger, once sang, "You can't always get what you want."

I just hope that we try hard enough that we actually get what we need.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

People have been told that they have to vote for one of these two and if they don't they are being irresponsible, etc.

If you subscribe to that then choosing to vote for one or the other may merely be that you have decided they are the "lesser of two evils".

I don't subscribe to that. I feel if you vote for someone then you are responsible for them.

If I don't vote for Trump or Clinton then I am not responsible for either one being elected. Instead the corporations that wheeled them out will be wholly responsible. The fewer that vote for either one the clearer this will be.

Catastrophes of administration lead to reform, revolt, or even revolution. These candidates were given to us by the corporations, they should be held accountable for the outcome.

I respect that. You'll be able to hold your head up high when the **** goes down. But, my passion is to stop Trump. I hate bullies.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

People have been told that they have to vote for one of these two and if they don't they are being irresponsible, etc.

If you subscribe to that then choosing to vote for one or the other may merely be that you have decided they are the "lesser of two evils".

I don't subscribe to that. I feel if you vote for someone then you are responsible for them.

If I don't vote for Trump or Clinton then I am not responsible for either one being elected. Instead the corporations that wheeled them out will be wholly responsible. The fewer that vote for either one the clearer this will be.

Catastrophes of administration lead to reform, revolt, or even revolution. These candidates were given to us by the corporations, they should be held accountable for the outcome.

If you could have prevented evil and didn't (by not voting) can you say you are not responsible? I think the system is designed so that if you don't vote for someone, then you are responsible for them. But that would only be true if the result depended entirely upon your one measly vote.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Doubtful, but hey, ole Bill is a liberal, so you give him a free pass.

Being buddies with Bill so is Trump a liberal ... in republican clothing.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

It's a matter of degrees. Trump far surpasses Bill Clinton on the psychopathology scale.

Is this seriously how we are going to choose a president, using a psychopathy scale?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Is this seriously how we are going to choose a president, using a psychopathy scale?

It's a factor in this election. Ignore it at your peril. If I had been thinking about the psychopathy back in 1973 I might have avoided Witness Lee's cult. Psychopathic narcissists like Trump are so fascinating and charismatic. They get away with stuff that other people can't. Like Trump said he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and his followers wouldn't care. People feel empowered by following them. You've been there, you know what it's like.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

It's a factor in this election. Ignore it at your peril. If I had been thinking about the psychopathy back in 1973 I might have avoided Witness Lee's cult. Psychopathic narcissists like Trump are so fascinating and charismatic. They get away with stuff that other people can't. Like Trump said he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and his followers wouldn't care. People feel empowered by following them. You've been there, you know what it's like.

Reminds me of the psychopathy checklist they gave to Corporations. When you are operating on a money first motivation that is the recipe for a psychopath.

The corporations have bought the political process. Not voting is one way to discredit this process.