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[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

People have been told that they have to vote for one of these two and if they don't they are being irresponsible, etc.

If you subscribe to that then choosing to vote for one or the other may merely be that you have decided they are the "lesser of two evils".

I don't subscribe to that. I feel if you vote for someone then you are responsible for them.

If I don't vote for Trump or Clinton then I am not responsible for either one being elected. Instead the corporations that wheeled them out will be wholly responsible. The fewer that vote for either one the clearer this will be.

Catastrophes of administration lead to reform, revolt, or even revolution. These candidates were given to us by the corporations, they should be held accountable for the outcome.

I respect that. You'll be able to hold your head up high when the **** goes down. But, my passion is to stop Trump. I hate bullies.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I respect that. You'll be able to hold your head up high when the **** goes down. But, my passion is to stop Trump. I hate bullies.

Reminded of the contrast between TR and LBJ. TR talked about "walking softly but carrying a big stick". One beloved story was when he was in the Badlands. He went into a bar late one night, and was confronted with a bully, holding two pistols in his hands and threatening TR (who wore glasses), bullying him into paying for a round for the whole bar. TR said "if I must then I guess I must", stood up and knocked the bully out. As he hit the ground he fired off a couple of rounds. He then took the guns away from him.

Compare that with LBJ. Students at college knew him and said he would act very tough, threatening and bullying. But when confronted he literally jumped on his bed with his legs out kicking and screaming. He was an incredible coward.

My feeling is this: if Clinton is elected things will continue as they are. Taxes will not go up very much, National debt will not skyrocket, ISIS and the relations with Russia will get worse. Obamacare will also be a catastrophe. Behind the scenes corruption will go wild as the election will be seen as carte blanche.

If Trump is elected it will be an international humiliation with someone who is a jerk, insulting very many people, tweeting at 3 am, being played like a fiddle by the Russians and Chinese. A giant boondoggle will be started as he builds the wall he has promised. There will be new tax dodges created to help Trump get another 20 years of tax free living. He will renegotiate many treaties and I have no idea if that will be a total catastrophe or if he can actually get a better treaty, I would say it will be a crap shoot. This is a guy who focuses on golf courses, casinos and fancy resorts. Best case scenario the entire line that he doesn't have the temperament to be the one with the finger on the nuclear button will have merely been worrying in vain.

But either way I think the ultimate goal is to reform the political process. TR was one of the first to warn about the dangers of corporate trusts, collusion, and their involvement in the political process. At the time many felt that business interests naturally align with political interests so it was fine for the two to be closely allied. If Trump is elected I think the movement towards reform will be much greater. If Clinton is, it is more like termites eating out the foundation of the house. We might not really notice that much until our foot goes through the floorboards.

It was LBJ that completely and totally sold his soul. Today we associate LBJ with civil rights reform, but at the time of his being chosen to be VP you couldn't pin him down to any particular policies. He didn't stand for anything except winning elections.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

But, my passion is to stop Trump. I hate bullies.

You are an internet bully who is promoting Hillary.

I hate hypocrites.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You are an internet bully who is promoting Hillary

That's funny.

I hate hypocrites.

That explains your self-loathing.

[TLFisher]

I have my own view on politics and the church. Liberals that defend and cover over Obama and Hillary are very much like the Blended brothers. "Cover the brothers" they say. Much more there is endless character traits that made me wonder, did Obama learn all this from the blendeds?
I do know among the localities there are opinions whether one supports the liberal views or the conservative views. However when it comes to having an opinion regarding criticism against WL and the Blendeds, they will say "I don't know. I wasn't involved in those conversations" or "I'll leave it to the judgment seat". In those context by itself, I say okay, but if in the next word there's a political opinion, you can't have it both ways.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

I have my own view on politics and the church. Liberals that defend and cover over Obama and Hillary are very much like the Blended brothers. "Cover the brothers" they say. Much more there is endless character traits that made me wonder, did Obama learn all this from the blendeds?
I do know among the localities there are opinions whether one supports the liberal views or the conservative views. However when it comes to having an opinion regarding criticism against WL and the Blendeds, they will say "I don't know. I wasn't involved in those conversations" or "I'll leave it to the judgment seat". In those context by itself, I say okay, but if in the next word there's a political opinion, you can't have it both ways.

Yes, I just listened to Clinton's latest attack. Her point is that Trump's attitude towards women in deplorable and should disqualify him. Which makes me wonder about her relationship with Bill and her closest aids relationship with Weiner. Obama claims that Trump is not qualified and that Clinton does have the credentials. Reminds me of LBJ, plenty of credentials without having accomplished anything of note.

It cuts both ways. I have no issue with those who disqualify Trump for his character, but then they should also disqualify Clinton.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, I just listened to Clinton's latest attack. Her point is that Trump's attitude towards women in deplorable and should disqualify him. Which makes me wonder about her relationship with Bill and her closest aids relationship with Weiner. Obama claims that Trump is not qualified and that Clinton does have the credentials. Reminds me of LBJ, plenty of credentials without having accomplished anything of note.

It cuts both ways. I have no issue with those who disqualify Trump for his character, but then they should also disqualify Clinton.

What will happen when Clinton gets elected, and now that Comey has reopened the FBI investigation, there is no way they can shovel all this evidence under the rug. Evidence demands a verdict, or at least a grand jury investigation, which most assuredly will recommend Hillary be indicted.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What will happen when Clinton gets elected, and now that Comey has reopened the FBI investigation, there is no way they can shovel all this evidence under the rug. Evidence demands a verdict, or at least a grand jury investigation, which most assuredly will recommend Hillary be indicted.

If she is convicted the VP takes over. I suppose if someone were voting for Hillary they should decide they like her VP choice to run the country while she serves out her sentence.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, I just listened to Clinton's latest attack. Her point is that Trump's attitude towards women in deplorable and should disqualify him. Which makes me wonder about her relationship with Bill and her closest aids relationship with Weiner. Obama claims that Trump is not qualified and that Clinton does have the credentials. Reminds me of LBJ, plenty of credentials without having accomplished anything of note.

It cuts both ways. I have no issue with those who disqualify Trump for his character, but then they should also disqualify Clinton.

Trump is running for one of the most important jobs in the world. The election process is a kind of "job interview". If any regular employee said what he said they would be fired from their job. That is the difference between Trump and Hillary, they both may have bad character, but Hillary knows how to keep it hidden and act like a President when she is going for the top job.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is running for one of the most important jobs in the world. The election process is a kind of "job interview". If any regular employee said what he said they would be fired from their job. That is the difference between Trump and Hillary, they both may have bad character, but Hillary knows how to keep it hidden and act like a President when she is going for the top job.

I think Hillary has given me excellent reasons why I shouldn't vote for Trump. I think that Trump has given me excellent reasons why I shouldn't vote for Clinton.

I think that Clinton thought she could keep it hidden, keep the FBI silent, make sure the DNC rigged the whole thing and keep CNN in her corner. It is just those pesky emails, like a million little ants, and this horrible Russian controlled Wikileaks telling us the truth. How weird is this that the Russians are now the ones speaking the truth. And since when does the FBI ignore politics to run a criminal investigation, and what is the point of bribing the head of the Justice dept if she can't even keep the FBI on a leash?

Clinton has the resume, but she clearly can't do anything right.