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[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lisbon, I am not convinced that the condition of the church determines the quality of President.

This thought comes from the O.T. It only applied to Israel.

Look at the 1st century church, from the time of Jesus' ministry until the Apostles all died. Ruthless Caesars were in power. During the time of Paul's ministry to the Gentiles, from Asia to Greece to Rome, possibly the worst Caesar of all ruled, named Nero.

I think the condition of the church determines the quality of the country. Light on a hill, salt on the Earth etc etc. More so for the USA, because of the Puritan dream, the righteous cause of the land of the free, bringing just freedom and the gospel to all of the countries it invades, oops I mean helps.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I think the condition of the church determines the quality of the country. Light on a hill, salt on the Earth etc etc. More so for the USA, because of the Puritan dream, the righteous cause of the land of the free, bringing just freedom and the gospel to all of the countries it invades, oops I mean helps.

Look at all those churches in the first century -- they supposedly all had the right name -- did they determine the quality of their country?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Look at all those churches in the first century -- they supposedly all had the right name -- did they determine the quality of their country?

Perhaps. I could reference Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible, and God considering the number of righteous people there. That's what i mean by salt and light. If a country has more salt and light, I cannot see how that cannot affect the country. And what about the large revivals of old which changed whole cities.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Perhaps. I could reference Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible, and God considering the number of righteous people there. That's what i mean by salt and light. If a country has more salt and light, I cannot see how that cannot affect the country. And what about the large revivals of old which changed whole cities.

Whoa! are you saying because of Trump's indiscretions, and Bill Clintons criminal behavior, and Weiner's perverted behavior, and the close connection to the Bush family in all of this mess that our government is similar to Sodom and Gomorrah?!!?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Whoa! are you saying because of Trump's indiscretions, and Bill Clintons criminal behavior, and Weiner's perverted behavior, and the close connection to the Bush family in all of this mess that our government is similar to Sodom and Gomorrah?!!?

No, although I could have (and perhaps should have, dang, missed opportunity),I was giving an example of how God's view of a city is determined by the righteousness of its people within. So in this sense, the quality of the church can determine the quality of the country. This was in response to the idea that the quality of the church does not affect the country.