Teaching on Calling on the Name of the Lord

Nell · 02-18-2017, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That applied to Nicodemus. I don't see it applying to everyone. When were Jesus and John the Baptist "born again"? When was Peter, James or John born again? The bible does not record any of the 12 disciples having a born again experience. Was it when Jesus called them to drop their nets and they started to "follow Christ"? Was it after Peter said "you are the Christ"?, was it at Pentecost? Who knows.

You know if a baby dies it goes straight to the kingdom of God, to heaven, right? Babies don't need to be born again, only when they reach the "age of accountability" if they are not already believers. I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth. I doubt it was "in the womb" as Christ or John the Baptist, it could have been during my infant baptism.

No...it was spoken to Nicodemus. It applies to everyone. Anyhow...most assuredly Jesus did not equivocate.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Further, Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It's not about the babies; not about the 12; not about Jesus or John...they're good. It's about the gospel of Jesus Christ and its simplicity. This statement worries me: "I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth."

Infant baptism is not Scriptural...it's a ritual of men with no spiritual significance.

Nell

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

No...it was spoken to Nicodemus. It applies to everyone. Anyhow...most assuredly Jesus did not equivocate.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Further, Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It's not about the babies; not about the 12; not about Jesus or John...they're good. It's about the gospel of Jesus Christ and its simplicity. This statement worries me: "I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth."

Infant baptism is not Scriptural...it's a ritual of men with no spiritual significance.

Nell

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

What some people may not understand, is that for a child infant baptized and raised in a Christian home, it is quite common for them to already be believers by the time they reach the age of accountability and exhibit faith in Christ such as prayer, bible reading and church attendance. For that reason it is unnecessary, even silly, to try and demand that they have a "born again experience", an experience which has already occurred in their heart because of God's work.

Ohio · 02-19-2017, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

I'm thinking at this time that ole Evangelical might need a new name.

Perhaps "EvenJelly."

And, btw, your spellings are not American English, which probably explains why you have displayed such a spiteful attitude towards our country in some of your posts.

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm thinking at this time that ole Evangelical might need a new name.

Perhaps "EvenJelly."

And, btw, your spellings are not American English, which probably explains why you have displayed such a spiteful attitude towards our country in some of your posts.

You just said I have a spiteful attitude towards America because I did not use the American spelling. That is hilarious. Your comment only makes you look like silly. I have moved around and picked up different spelling habits from here and there (England/ US).

Ohio · 02-19-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You just said I have a spiteful attitude towards America because I did not use the American spelling. Your comment only makes you look like silly. I have moved around and picked up different spelling habits from here and there (England/ US).

No, I did not say that. Not exactly.

Your poor attitude towards the US has been evident in dozens of your posts. (Remember you said that the US is now Sodom.)

I only commented that your spelling indicates you are probably not an American, which helps to explain your animosity.

All that being said, I do think your attitude towards God's children, outside of the LC movement, is worse than your attitude towards the US.

But, hey, we all understand, too much Lee will do that to you.

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

No, I did not say that. Not exactly.

Your poor attitude towards the US has been evident in dozens of your posts. (Remember you said that the US is now Sodom.)

I only commented that your spelling indicates you are probably not an American, which helps to explain your animosity.

All that being said, I do think your attitude towards God's children, outside of the LC movement, is worse than your attitude towards the US.

But, hey, we all understand, too much Lee will do that to you.

That is not animosity towards America, that is "animosity" towards countries which have gay marriage. In my previous posts I also said countries in Europe were Sodom. So did Lee. I believe England is Sodom as well, and much of Europe. That was all in my posts, but you only heard "Evangelical hates America". I don't hate or love any country. I only disagree with their unbiblical laws and beliefs, and equate that to the prophetic cities in the bible such as Sodom or Tyre. America is also Tyre by the way, as any country built on mammon is. America is also a kind of "promised land", or "new Jerusalem".

Nell · 02-19-2017, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

What some people may not understand, is that for a child infant baptized and raised in a Christian home, it is quite common for them to already be believers by the time they reach the age of accountability and exhibit faith in Christ such as prayer, bible reading and church attendance. For that reason it is unnecessary, even silly, to try and demand that they have a "born again experience", an experience which has already occurred in their heart because of God's work.

So the simple answer to the question "when were you saved" is "I don't know." But that's not unusual. Yet most people who don't know simply testify something like "I don't know when I was saved, but I have the assurance that Jesus is my Savior, that He died for me, and that He lives in my heart." Not you.

As is your way, you attempt to put words in my mouth, you launch into a strawman argument (*which you believe is "part and parcel" of this sort discussion setting), and wildly deflect from the topic. In this case, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

But Ohio is sooooo right. This post explains a lot. You do need a new name. To be "evangelical" you need to be able to share the gospel in a clear and accurate way and actually lead someone to the Lord. There are red flags all over your post.

Nell

Since you admit your fondness for the strawman argument, can we ever trust that you sincerely want to discuss the topics presented on this forum, or are you just another troll...out baiting your traps?

*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

... Straw-man's are part and parcel of this sort of discussion - grow up and get over it. I'm not asking for respect, ...

leastofthese · 02-19-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

Since you admit your fondness for the strawman argument, can we ever trust that you sincerely want to discuss the topics presented on this forum, or are you just another troll...out baiting your traps?
*

I'm sorry Evangelical, I'm not going to take your bait, its not worth my time. If you are not trolling this forum, I feel even more sorry for you.

God bless.

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

So the simple answer to the question "when were you saved" is "I don't know." But that's not unusual. Yet most people who don't know simply testify something like "I don't know when I was saved, but I have the assurance that Jesus is my Savior, that He died for me, and that He lives in my heart." Not you.

As is your way, you attempt to put words in my mouth, you launch into a strawman argument (*which you believe is "part and parcel" of this sort discussion setting), and wildly deflect from the topic. In this case, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

But Ohio is sooooo right. This post explains a lot. You do need a new name. To be "evangelical" you need to be able to share the gospel in a clear and accurate way and actually lead someone to the Lord. There are red flags all over your post.

Nell

Since you admit your fondness for the strawman argument, can we ever trust that you sincerely want to discuss the topics presented on this forum, or are you just another troll...out baiting your traps?

*

Nell, now you are more or less blaming me for not responding according to your religious and manmade concepts about how I should respond to the question. Shame on you. How can you preach the gospel if you expect people's responses to conform to your template?

I did not say "I don't know" because I do know and I just told you before.
I told you I was saved before or by the age of accountability, age 0 to 5. I know when I was saved, I just told you that.

I believe I was saved around age 5, but I know I would have gone to heaven if I died before that. So I was saved from birth.
If I am wrong, then can you please tell me at what age between 0 and 5 I was unsaved i.e. going to hell if I died. <-- that's not a strawman argument, that's to make you think how you sound by not taking me at my word that I was saved by the age of accountability.

Nell · 02-19-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Nell, now you are more or less blaming me for not responding according to your religious and manmade concepts about how I should respond to the question. Shame on you.

I did not say "I don't know" because I do know and I just told you before.
I told you I was saved before or by the age of accountability, age 0 to 5. I know when I was saved, I just told you that.

I believe I was saved around age 5, but I know I would have gone to heaven if I died before that. So I was saved from birth.
If I am wrong, then can you please tell me at what age between 0 and 5 I was unsaved i.e. going to hell if I died. <-- that's not a strawman argument, that's to make you think how you sound by not taking me at my word that I was saved by the age of accountability.

Good to know you are confident of your salvation. That's really what we wanted to know. Straight answers are not your strong suit. I don't need your assistance identifying a strawman, but thanks.

Nell

Ohio · 02-19-2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

Then why did Jesus say that "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John?"

Why don't you checkout what Lee said in the footnote? (Mt 11.11; Lk 7.28)

Perhaps you missed the HWFMR review for those verses because you were here trashing Christianity and the US.

Just sayin.

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then why did Jesus say that "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John?"

Why don't you checkout what Lee said in the footnote? (Mt 11.11; Lk 7.28)

Perhaps you missed the HWFMR review for those verses because you were here trashing Christianity and the US.

Just sayin.

"he did not have the resurrected Christ indwelling him" - neither did Nicodemus or Peter, James and John. Does not mean they were not born again. They all entered into the kingdom of God, even before Christ died on the cross. Luke 17:21 -You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you." .

Jesus did not say "the kingdom of God will come after I die on the cross and resurrect".

The footnote is referring to the resurrected Christ. It is about all the powerful things believers can do once they receive the Spirit, the resurrected Christ, at Pentecost. The "greater works" one shall do, and the great intimacy with Christ. If we think that being born again means to be indwelt with the resurrected Christ (post-resurrection), then technically the thief on the cross was not "born again" either. That is not the meaning of being born again. People could be "born again" before Jesus died on the cross - a person is born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith. God prospectively applied the death of Christ to people before Christ had even died. That's how all the old testament saints "got saved". That's how the 12 disciples "got saved" while they were following Christ up until His crucifixion (possibly not Judas Iscariot).

Nicodemus lived at the same time as John. Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again, as an adult. Nell has used Jesus's words as a kind of universal "simple gospel" principle. But if this is the case, why did John the Baptist not need to be born again as an adult?

Answer:
Because he was already filled with the Spirit from birth.

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

I understand this to mean that the death of Christ was prospectively applied to John the Baptist. He was already in the kingdom of God since his birth.

Ohio · 02-19-2017, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

"he did not have the resurrected Christ indwelling him" - neither did Nicodemus or Peter, James and John. Does not mean they were not born again. They all entered into the kingdom of God, even before Christ died on the cross. Luke 17:21 -You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you." .

Jesus did not say "the kingdom of God will come after I die on the cross and resurrect".

The footnote is referring to the resurrected Christ. It is about all the powerful things believers can do once they receive the Spirit, the resurrected Christ, at Pentecost. The "greater works" one shall do, and the great intimacy with Christ. If we think that being born again means to be indwelt with the resurrected Christ (post-resurrection), then technically the thief on the cross was not "born again" either. That is not the meaning of being born again. People could be "born again" before Jesus died on the cross - a person is born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith. God prospectively applied the death of Christ to people before Christ had even died. That's how all the old testament saints "got saved". That's how the 12 disciples "got saved" while they were following Christ up until His crucifixion (possibly not Judas Iscariot).

Nicodemus lived at the same time as John. Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again, as an adult. Nell has used Jesus's words as a kind of universal "simple gospel" principle. But if this is the case, why did John the Baptist not need to be born again as an adult?

Answer:
Because he was already filled with the Spirit from birth.

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

I understand this to mean that the death of Christ was prospectively applied to John the Baptist. He was already in the kingdom of God since his birth.

Evangelical, John the Baptist may have been filled with the Holy Spirit from even before his birth, but that does not mean he was born again, born of God, born of the Holy Spirit.

Bezalel, Micah, Zacharias, and Elizabeth were also filled with the Holy Spirit. (Ex 31.3, Mic 3.8, Lk 1.41, 67) Does that mean that they also were born again? According to your crazy definition, the first man in the entire Bible to be born again was an unknown jeweler, a goldsmith in the wilderness. Who knew?

Did you read Lee's footnote on this subject like I told you too? You better not include this stuff in your prophecy time, otherwise you might get quarantined by brother Drake. (Don't you know that Nigel Tomes and Titus Chu got quarantined for less.)

Evangelical · 02-19-2017, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Evangelical, John the Baptist may have been filled with the Holy Spirit from even before his birth, but that does not mean he was born again, born of God, born of the Holy Spirit.

Bezalel, Micah, Zacharias, and Elizabeth were also filled with the Holy Spirit. (Ex 31.3, Mic 3.8, Lk 1.41, 67) Does that mean that they also were born again? According to your crazy definition, the first man in the entire Bible to be born again was an unknown jeweler, a goldsmith in the wilderness. Who knew?

Did you read Lee's footnote on this subject like I told you too? You better not include this stuff in your prophecy time, otherwise you might get quarantined by brother Drake. (Don't you know that Nigel Tomes and Titus Chu got quarantined for less.)

Regeneration, or being "born again" is in the old testament.

In the OT people were given “a new heart” by God - 1 Sam 10:9.

Nell · 02-20-2017, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Regeneration, or being "born again" is in the old testament.

Where?

Nell

Ohio · 02-20-2017, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Regeneration, or being "born again" is in the old testament.

In the OT people were given “a new heart” by God - 1 Sam 10:9.

This is where your strange teaching leads you -- now you are telling us that King Saul was born again.