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[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Or we fear others because of what we do know.

Coming from you, I found this interesting.

Reading all your posts, I can't ever remember a time where you portrayed Christians in a good light. We have corresponded for years about your disparaging attitude towards God, towards the Bible, towards Israel, and towards Christians. You never seem to have a good thing to say about any of them, instead you can drag up the most outlandish things, often from millennia ago, to paint them derogatorily. Am I not right?

Yet here you are lecturing me about finding some good mooslims, ready to tell me wonderful stories of their love. You never have a bad thing to say. Why did you not challenge them about their teachings and history, like you do with every other Christian you run in to? Why not incite them on the sunni/shiite conflicts, or anything else close to their heart, like you do with every Christian you know? Why do you treat mooslims so much better than Christians?


Also funny. You have never said anything good about Bush or Trump, yet say nearly nothing about Clintons or Obama. That doesn't sound very colorful to me. Sounds to me pretty monochromatic -- true blue. Or maybe "yellow dog" democrat.


Little disingenuous for you to criticize Bannon for his views supporting Trump, yet never condemn the Obama girls like Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice, and Loretta Lynch. They really pushed the limits of Alt-left. Wasn't there a whole lot to hate there? How about the total lack of honesty and transparency?

But wait folks! We ain't allowed to critique their job performance! Heck no! Because they are women. And they are minority women. They get a free pass. How dare us white folks demand accountability from these "public" servants? Don't you know that all of us white folks got "white privilege?" We must forever bear the daily shame of our "white guilt."

News Flash!!

It was not white people who broke all their treaties and killed the yellow man, it was the Democrats.

It was not white people who kept the black man enslaved and oppressed, it was the Democrats, southern AND northern.

Goodness bro Ohio, come out for hate why don't you. Seems to me what you are saying is that, I hate Christians, and Jews, and I'm messing up by not hate Muslims, and, by the way, liberals. Hey, I may as well throw the conservatives in there too. Cuz I've got my hands full with just the Christians. Something is wrong with me. I'm not able to hate enough, nor to keep up with all the hate required in the world.

Should we really be hating labels? Should we actually be putting people in categories, and then hating all in that category, without realizing that we might be putting people in the category that don't fit there ; when there are actually good and bad people in each an every category???

I don't get it. Why must we hate? What is it about humans that makes them have to have someone(s) to hate?

[Evangelical]

Most Muslims are non-violent, peace loving people, even the ones that believe in Sharia. Islam is about a personal relationship with God, through Sharia Law. This is similar to a Jew's personal relationship with God through the Torah. In fact the Torah and Sharia Law are very similar to each other.
I can imagine God perhaps preferring a Sharia Law country to a law-less country like America. The Sharia Law country would be more or less similar to ancient Israel.
Contrary to popular opinion, muslims have no interest in converting a country like America to Sharia law, because it is against the Koran to mix church and state. Sharia law obliges muslims to defend other faiths from attack. Fundamentalists, or extremists, on the other hand, want to use Islam to overthrow democracy - there are many muslims who disagree with this, which is why muslim democratic countries still exist.

This parodox between "peace loving" and violence is not only found in Islam, it is also in Christianity. For example, Christianity is a peace loving religion, or so it claims. If that is true, then why do Christians ever go to war given the command to "love thy neighbor"? These sorts of "if Islam is so peaceful why do they....." arguments can also apply to Christianity.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Contrary to popular opinion, muslims have no interest in converting a country like America to Sharia law, because it is against the Koran to mix church and state.

Thank you for teaching us! Can you quote the portion of the Koran that is against mixing church and state? Thanks.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Contrary to popular opinion, muslims have no interest in converting a country like America to Sharia law, because it is against the Koran to mix church and state. Sharia law obliges muslims to defend other faiths from attack.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Thank you for teaching us! Can you quote the portion of the Koran that is against mixing church and state? Thanks.

Evangelical, perhaps you need to study more.

It is absolutely islamic culture that the same person is both their secular and religious leader. Their religion and culture also mandates that religion and state by the same. Their are only a few exceptions to this in the world today.

Have you ever read what "peaceful" muslims do to non-muslims? Have you ever read what "peaceful" muslims do to family members who are non-observant, or even convert to another religion?

One of the hallmarks of 21st century progressivism is the promotion and acceptance of muslims. Prior to this no society has ever welcomed them. History tells us that their "gospel" always came with the edge of a sword, and people resisted with their lives.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Evangelical, perhaps you need to study more.

It is absolutely islamic culture that the same person is both their secular and religious leader. Their religion and culture also mandates that religion and state by the same. Their are only a few exceptions to this in the world today.

Have you ever read what "peaceful" muslims do to non-muslims? Have you ever read what "peaceful" muslims do to family members who are non-observant, or even convert to another religion?

One of the hallmarks of 21st century progressivism is the promotion and acceptance of muslims. Prior to this no society has ever welcomed them. History tells us that their "gospel" always came with the edge of a sword, and people resisted with their lives.

Hindus also do things to their family members who convert to another religion. Hindus have killed their own for converting to Islam or Christianity.

We only need to look into Christian history to see that "History tells us that their "gospel" always came with the edge of a sword, and people resisted with their lives" is just as true of Christianity as it is of Islam. A good place to start is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Goodness bro Ohio, come out for hate why don't you. Seems to me what you are saying is that, I hate Christians, and Jews, and I'm messing up by not hate Muslims, and, by the way, liberals. Hey, I may as well throw the conservatives in there too. Cuz I've got my hands full with just the Christians. Something is wrong with me. I'm not able to hate enough, nor to keep up with all the hate required in the world.

Should we really be hating labels? Should we actually be putting people in categories, and then hating all in that category, without realizing that we might be putting people in the category that don't fit there ; when there are actually good and bad people in each an every category???

I don't get it. Why must we hate? What is it about humans that makes them have to have someone(s) to hate?

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

I think you critiqued Obama's administration. That usually results in a knee jerk reaction of "hate" and "racist".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think you critiqued Obama's administration. That usually results in a knee jerk reaction of "hate" and "racist".

I understand, after Hillary's epic loss, many young liberals are now suffering from PTSD, not unlike our soldiers returning from battle.

[zeek]

"America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith. America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...dan/islam.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

"America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith. America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...dan/islam.html

Great quote!

Those were the good ole days.

Then Obama screwed it all up.

[Evangelical]

Separation of church and state in Islam is a yes and no answer.
Firstly, there is no concept of "church" in Islam, so in that sense there is no separation of religion from the state. Ideologically there is not, but in practice there often is. This is evident by 50% of nations with majority Islamic population being democracies (or close enough to it). Indonesia, the largest Muslim nation, is evident of that - a secular democratic government with a large muslim population. Actually it is incorrect to say Indonesia is a Muslim nation. It is a secular multi-faith nation with a large number of Muslims.

Karen Armstrong, Instructor at Leo Baeck College for the Study of Judaism, in a Oct. 22, 2001 Salon.com interview titled "Fundamental Problems," stated the following:
"Even though ideologically [in Islam] there can be no separation between church and state, both Sunnis and Shiites developed a separation very early on. In the Sunni world, the separation was de facto; Islamic law developed as kind of a counterculture to the aristocratic courts. In the Shiite world, there was a separation of church and state on principle. It was held that since every state was corrupt, clerics should take no part in them, that the religious should withdraw until the messiah came and established a proper Muslim state."


Can read the 'yes' and 'no' side here:
http://israelipalestinian.procon.org...stionID=000603


The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The Quran also teaches freedom of religion:

“There is no compulsion in religion — the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error.”— 2:256

Many Muslim clerics believe like Witness Lee did - they should stay out of government so they don't "defile" themselves.

Most Muslims have no interest in seeing Sharia Law replace the existing Constitution. They live their lives in peace according to their beliefs and believe that one day the secular governments will be overthrown when the Messiah comes. This is not unlike most Christians who also have no interest in seeing "Christian law" (e.g. the 10 commandments) replace existing laws of government, but believe that things will change when the Messiah comes.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great quote!

Those were the good ole days.

Then Obama screwed it all up.

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."

George W. Bush
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
September 17, 2001

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When did I say to hate anyone? Did you even read what I wrote?

No I didn't. It exuded too much hate. Was it lying to me? I hope so. I really hate hate.

But really. Okay I'm hard on Christianity, the Jews and the Bible. But I wouldn't ban any of them. And of course if I got on Islam's case I would likely be as bad, and am, at times with Muslim "friends" on Facebook. I am weak on the point. I've read the Quran, but don't know it like the Bible (it reminds me of the Old Testament). And I realize there are violent Muslims. They're human. But I wouldn't ban them either ; not as a classified group. Most Muslim's aren't violent, thank God, or Allah ... what/whoever.

For a while I was helping a young student here at Murray State University. He was a Muslim from India. He was Sunni. He spewed disdain for Shiite (not Muslim he said) and Hindus. He talked up India like it's the greatest country in the world. But I loved the kid. Even tho he was a Muslim, he was basically a good person, in the struggle of life, like the rest of us.

I asked why we hate. It's obviously a cultural thing. Our culture is good. Their's is not. My tribe good. Yours not. My tribe is real people. Yours is not.

But as Christians we're supposed to be a "new man." I'll leave all the characteristics of the new man to bro ZNP, but I doubt it includes stereotypically hating groups of people ; whether liberals, Muslims, blacks, gays, or otherwise. That to me should be both liberal and conservative values.

Besides, do we really want to advertise to the world that Jesus failed us?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

No I didn't. It exuded too much hate. Was it lying to me? I hope so. I really hate hate.

But really. Okay I'm hard on Christianity, the Jews and the Bible. But I wouldn't ban any of them. And of course if I got on Islam's case I would likely be as bad, and am, at times with Muslim "friends" on Facebook. I am weak on the point. I've read the Quran, but don't know it like the Bible (it reminds me of the Old Testament). And I realize there are violent Muslims. They're human. But I wouldn't ban them either ; not as a classified group. Most Muslim's aren't violent, thank God, or Allah ... what/whoever.

For a while I was helping a young student here at Murray State University. He was a Muslim from India. He was Sunni. He spewed disdain for Shiite (not Muslim he said) and Hindus. He talked up India like it's the greatest country in the world. But I loved the kid. Even tho he was a Muslim, he was basically a good person, in the struggle of life, like the rest of us.

I asked why we hate. It's obviously a cultural thing. Our culture is good. Their's is not. My tribe good. Yours not. My tribe is real people. Yours is not.

But as Christians we're supposed to be a "new man." I'll leave all the characteristics of the new man to bro ZNP, but I doubt it includes stereotypically hating groups of people ; whether liberals, Muslims, blacks, gays, or otherwise. That to me should be both liberal and conservative values.

Besides, do we really want to advertise to the world that Jesus failed us?

Of course Jesus failed.

We need to tell every one!

He died on the cross, didn't He?

And that's the good news of the gospel!