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[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

but after all these years of islamic jihadi terrorism in western countries, a new reality has set in.

Hogwash. Bush was speaking right after 9/11. It can't get any worse than an out right attack on our soil.

[Ohio]

Ohio: But after all these years of islamic jihadi terrorism in western countries, a new reality has set in.

Originally Posted by awareness

Hogwash. Bush was speaking right after 9/11. It can't get any worse than an out right attack on our soil.

Sure it can.

Bush portrayed 9/11 as an isolated event, though horrific, and it was a problem America was going to solve once and for all. Here we 15 years later. Islamic terror seems to strike on a monthly basis. Not just in the US, but Europe, and all over the world. Now we got sunni ISIS recruits on the internet from every nation on earth. We have serious mooslim threats never envisioned by Bush.

Back in those days Osama Been Hiding (Al Quada) and Saddam (maddas) Hussein were the perceived threats. Now they are gone, and new threats emerge every day. Iran has stepped up to become the chief state sponsor of terror, and with the arrival of their nuke program, courtesy of Hussein Obama, we now must fear that some dirty bomb might come floating up the Potomac. Or the Hudson.

Even if Trump took out ISIS completely today, the pending threats are growing on a daily basis. Muslims are a violent bunch. We have to face the facts.

Many sunni muslems are Arabs, descendants of Ishmael. Listen to the prophecy about Ishmael:

“he shall be a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. And he shall dwell over against all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).

Just amazing how the Bible prophecies get fulfilled!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sure it can.

Bush portrayed 9/11 as an isolated event, though horrific, and it was a problem America was going to solve once and for all. Here we 15 years later. Islamic terror seems to strike on a monthly basis. Not just in the US, but Europe, and all over the world. Now we got sunni ISIS recruits on the internet from every nation on earth. We have serious mooslim threats never envisioned by Bush.

Back in those days Osama Been Hiding (Al Quada) and Saddam (maddas) Hussein were the perceived threats. Now they are gone, and new threats emerge every day. Iran has stepped up to become the chief state sponsor of terror, and with the arrival of their nuke program, courtesy of Hussein Obama, we now must fear that some dirty bomb might come floating up the Potomac. Or the Hudson.

Even if Trump took out ISIS completely today, the pending threats are growing on a daily basis. Muslims are a violent bunch. We have to face the facts.

Many sunni muslems are Arabs, descendants of Ishmael. Listen to the prophecy about Ishmael:

Just amazing how the Bible prophecies get fulfilled!

A racist reads a racist interpretation into a Bible verse. It's called "confirmation bias". Your blindness to the fact that you are doing that is kind of amazing. The verse literally makes a statement about Ismael, nothing more. You read the rest in. But then, you're just parroting what Witness Lee taught, so, it's not like there's any independent thought involved.

[ZNPaaneah]

Can we put these comments into the context of the day. After 9/11 Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq (I see this as an oil grab, but whatever his reason, WMD, whatever). In order to do that he needed Saudi Arabia to allow the heathen armies of the West to step foot on their soil and set up base. (Please note I am not trying to hint at any disingenuousness on Bush's part due to his investments, close family ties, or close links to big oil). To make things worse our armies include women, who are allowed to drive, etc. There was a lot of political backlash to the Saudi's for allowing us to desecrate the holy land of Islam. So at this very same time Bush was talking up this "Islam means Peace" angle.

Yes it took place right after this major attack (which the official story completely violates the laws of physics) which is alleged to have been perpetrated by a bunch of guys with box cutters who usually live in caves. But it was also immediately before the US needed Saudi approval to set up military bases to fight Iraq on the false claim that they were behind the attack.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes it took place right after this major attack (which the official story completely violates the laws of physics) which is alleged to have been perpetrated by a bunch of guys with box cutters who usually live in caves. But it was also immediately before the US needed Saudi approval to set up military bases to fight Iraq on the false claim that they were behind the attack.

Can you explain the laws of physics violations?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Can you explain the laws of physics violations?

You have a force that is directional -- an airplane traveling at 200-300 mph. You have a fire and explosion that could not have taken place in a uniform controlled environment.

With those two factors the odds of the building imploding upon itself without tipping in any direction is a million to one. The odds of two buildings doing it is 1,000,000,000,000 to 1. But what about 3 buildings, where the third building isn't even hit by anything more than debris?

In the entire human history there have only been 3 steel frame high rise buildings that completely imploded upon themselves due to fire. There have been many horrific fires in high rise, steel framed buildings, but only 3 imploded. All three collapsed on 9/11 at the World Trade Center. We have had fires that raged for 24 hours without them collapsing, yet the two towers both collapse after little more than an hour, and building 7 collapses about 8 hours after the attack.

Any forensic investigation of this fire would look at the steel. However, in this case the forensic investigators were not given access to the steel, it was guarded by the US military and shipped to China to be recycled.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You have a force that is directional -- an airplane traveling at 200-300 mph. You have a fire and explosion that could not have taken place in a uniform controlled environment.

With those two factors the odds of the building imploding upon itself without tipping in any direction is a million to one. The odds of two buildings doing it is 1,000,000,000,000 to 1. But what about 3 buildings, where the third building isn't even hit by anything more than debris?

In the entire human history there have only been 3 steel frame high rise buildings that completely imploded upon themselves due to fire. There have been many horrific fires in high rise, steel framed buildings, but only 3 imploded. All three collapsed on 9/11 at the World Trade Center. We have had fires that raged for 24 hours without them collapsing, yet the two towers both collapse after little more than an hour, and building 7 collapses about 8 hours after the attack.

Any forensic investigation of this fire would look at the steel. However, in this case the forensic investigators were not given access to the steel, it was guarded by the US military and shipped to China to be recycled.

I've heard conspiracists question about the third building, and I'm not sure about that, and for that matter whether a plane actually hit the pentagon or not.

The other two building were more simple to explain. The explosion damages the fire retardant that covers the steel, which heats up and buckles under the weight. Fire protection systems were all destroyed. I'd like to study it more, because structural steel should not be bearing the compressive loads, concrete should be.

I watched both buildings go down. The collapse of each building was shocking, though predictable to me, and did not seem out of the ordinary. We would have to compare the momentum of the airplane (mass times velocity) to the building mass to determine its expected lateral movement. The explosion is a different phenomena, as was the heat produced by burning fuel. So each of the three events should be examined individually (crash, explosion, fire.)

The rising temperature within the structural posts determined the diminishing yield strength of the steel (concrete would not be so vulnerable to heat) to uphold the weight above the damaged area. The 2nd tower was hit on a lower floor, hence more weight to uphold, and that building failed in a shorter time.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You have a force that is directional -- an airplane traveling at 200-300 mph. You have a fire and explosion that could not have taken place in a uniform controlled environment.

With those two factors the odds of the building imploding upon itself without tipping in any direction is a million to one. The odds of two buildings doing it is 1,000,000,000,000 to 1. But what about 3 buildings, where the third building isn't even hit by anything more than debris?

In the entire human history there have only been 3 steel frame high rise buildings that completely imploded upon themselves due to fire. There have been many horrific fires in high rise, steel framed buildings, but only 3 imploded. All three collapsed on 9/11 at the World Trade Center. We have had fires that raged for 24 hours without them collapsing, yet the two towers both collapse after little more than an hour, and building 7 collapses about 8 hours after the attack.

Any forensic investigation of this fire would look at the steel. However, in this case the forensic investigators were not given access to the steel, it was guarded by the US military and shipped to China to be recycled.

Neither the directional force, nor the immediate explosions brought down either building. But they did start a process whereby the infrastructure was progressively weakened by the file, eventually leading to the collapse of the affected floors. And with the weight of the floors above now dropping downward, the lower floors began to collapse in sequence all the way to the bottom.

If there had only been the physical damage on the side of entry and no explosion to spread the destruction across the affected floors, or if the impact had immediately caused the building to collapse, then your presumption about the odds it would fall straight down might be correct.

But the infrastructure held. There was serious damage, but it could have continued to stand. Possibly.

Except for the extreme fire that then began to work on the integrity of the steel structure. No more lateral motion. An explosion that would have taken in roughly the entire floor(s) affected, not just a corner of the building.

Now it might not be controlled like an intentional demolition. But the factors are beginning to become more equal across the floors. Two planes, fully fueled, early in their flights striking into buildings. The explosions and fires would have been sufficient to spread the destruction thoroughly across the affected floors, therefore be somewhat uniform.

So are you suggesting that the U.S. govt either was in on the attacks, or knew enough to have charges set at the right places to help the buildings come down neatly when the attack finally happened?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

A racist reads a racist interpretation into a Bible verse. It's called "confirmation bias". Your blindness to the fact that you are doing that is kind of amazing. The verse literally makes a statement about Ismael, nothing more. You read the rest in. But then, you're just parroting what Witness Lee taught, so, it's not like there's any independent thought involved.

Not at all. I don't "read the rest in," rather I just read the Bible.

Have you not read that the prophecy was to Ishmael's seed? Genesis 16.10: "I will greatly multiply your seed, so that it can't even be numbered in multitude." (see Genesis 21.18) History and the Bible (Genesis 25.13) tell us Ishmael had 12 sons, who became the heads of 12 tribes. How interesting!

You give too much credit to Lee, and I think you are still too obsessed with him. Why not try reading the Bible for yourself?

Typical liberal -- can't respond with intelligence, so just screams "racist."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not at all. I don't "read the rest in," rather I just read the Bible.

Have you not read that the prophecy was to Ishmael's seed? Genesis 16.10: "I will greatly multiply your seed, so that it can't even be numbered in multitude." (see Genesis 21.18) History and the Bible (Genesis 25.13) tell us Ishmael had 12 sons, who became the heads of 12 tribes. How interesting!

You give too much credit to Lee, and I think you are still too obsessed with him. Why not try reading the Bible for yourself?

Typical liberal -- can't respond with intelligence, so just screams "racist."

I am reading it. Genesis 16:12 is about Ishmael. It doesn't say anything about his children or his seed. Quote:

“he shall be a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. And he shall dwell over against all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I am reading it. Genesis 16:12 is about Ishmael. It doesn't say anything about his children or his seed. Quote:

“he shall be a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. And he shall dwell over against all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).

I don't think it's too hard for you to read the other verses I posted. And the context too.

Even if you burned your Bible, it's still available on line.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't think it's too hard for you to read the other verses I posted. And the context too.

Even if you burned your Bible, it's still available on line.

Apparently it's impossible for you to read what the verse literally says without injecting the racist interpretation you were taught. Sad.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not at all. I don't "read the rest in," rather I just read the Bible.

Have you not read that the prophecy was to Ishmael's seed? Genesis 16.10: "I will greatly multiply your seed, so that it can't even be numbered in multitude." (see Genesis 21.18) History and the Bible (Genesis 25.13) tell us Ishmael had 12 sons, who became the heads of 12 tribes. How interesting!

You give too much credit to Lee, and I think you are still too obsessed with him. Why not try reading the Bible for yourself?

Typical liberal -- can't respond with intelligence, so just screams "racist."

O no you dit-ten !!!

You didn't drag out that old shop worn Ishmael story. You're pulling our legs, surely, I hope.

But it don't surprise me in the least. I've heard that one going way back. My cradle religion, Southern Baptist, was born using the Bible against a group of people ; the blacks should be slaves, they claimed the Bible (God) said, and proved it.

And not long ago I got into it with a cousin, at a family get together, who claimed that the problem with America is that it's not following God's laws and commandments, because ... the blacks were/are under the curse of Ham, and we are ordered by God to keep them as slaves.

So I guess, I'm learning, another reason America is in trouble, for not practicing God's laws, is concerning the Ishmael "prophecy" ... delivered by God Himself.

I'm pressed to ask. Does the Bible support group-hate? Many have, and apparently still do, think so.

Not me. As far as I'm concerned, if the Bible supports group-hate, it's time to throw it into the trash bin.

So I'm not taking you serious bro Ohio. You're just pulling our legs. Thanks for the belly laugh.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

O no you dit-ten !!!

You didn't drag out that old shop worn Ishmael story. You're pulling our legs, surely, I hope.

But it don't surprise me in the least. I've heard that one going way back. My cradle religion, Southern Baptist, was born using the Bible against a group of people ; the blacks should be slaves, they claimed the Bible (God) said, and proved it.

And not long ago I got into it with a cousin, at a family get together, who claimed that the problem with America is that it's not following God's laws and commandments, because ... the blacks were/are under the curse of Ham, and we are ordered by God to keep them as slaves.

So I guess, I'm learning, another reason America is in trouble, for not practicing God's laws, is concerning the Ishmael "prophecy" ... delivered by God Himself.

I'm pressed to ask. Does the Bible support group-hate? Many have, and apparently still do, think so.

Not me. As far as I'm concerned, if the Bible supports group-hate, it's time to throw it into the trash bin.

So I'm not taking you serious bro Ohio. You're just pulling our legs. Thanks for the belly laugh.

Huh? Muslims are the descendants of Ham?

Have you read any posts, or just jump to your childhood conclusions?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Huh? Muslims are the descendants of Ham?

Have you read any posts, or just jump to your childhood conclusions?

So quibble but avoid the real subject, which was the Bible supporting group-hate.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So quibble but avoid the real subject, which was the Bible supporting group-hate.

Not at all. No group-hate, that is your imagination or misinterpretation, perhaps mis-reading things from your Southern Baptist roots. The Bible only warns us of what is a danger. The Bible instructs us to love God and our neighbor, even our enemy, yet we are still warned about all types of dangers.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

A racist reads a racist interpretation into a Bible verse. It's called "confirmation bias".

A liar who would wire tap his enemies reads a tyrannical interpretation into a news story he hears and assumes that the previous president wire tapped him without even realizing that as President he could confirm his suspicion without playing the fool for the whole world to see. It's called confirmation bias.

Does anyone know what is going on?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

A liar who would wire tap his enemies reads a tyrannical interpretation into a news story he hears and assumes that the previous president wire tapped him without even realizing that as President he could confirm his suspicion without playing the fool for the whole world to see. It's called confirmation bias.

Does anyone know what is going on?

Watch Hannity's interview with Mark Levin and Jay Sekulow.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Watch Hannity's interview with Mark Levin and Jay Sekulow.

I'll try to get to it tomorrow, it is 1 1/2 hours and it is too late for me tonight.

[ZNPaaneah]

President Trump must be held accountable for what he said concerning President Obama.

If he shrugs off these comments he will be an international joke, no credibility. This will cause irreparable damage to the office of the President if he is not held accountable.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sure it can.

Bush portrayed 9/11 as an isolated event, though horrific, and it was a problem America was going to solve once and for all. Here we 15 years later. Islamic terror seems to strike on a monthly basis. Not just in the US, but Europe, and all over the world. Now we got sunni ISIS recruits on the internet from every nation on earth. We have serious mooslim threats never envisioned by Bush.

Back in those days Osama Been Hiding (Al Quada) and Saddam (maddas) Hussein were the perceived threats. Now they are gone, and new threats emerge every day. Iran has stepped up to become the chief state sponsor of terror, and with the arrival of their nuke program, courtesy of Hussein Obama, we now must fear that some dirty bomb might come floating up the Potomac. Or the Hudson.

Even if Trump took out ISIS completely today, the pending threats are growing on a daily basis. Muslims are a violent bunch. We have to face the facts.

Many sunni muslems are Arabs, descendants of Ishmael. Listen to the prophecy about Ishmael:

Just amazing how the Bible prophecies get fulfilled!

Islams claim to Israel rests upon these two beliefs:

1.All Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael;
2. Muhammad went to Jerusalem.

Both of these statements are historical nonsense (some arabs may have been descendants of Ishmael, but not all), and Muhammad never went to Jerusalem.

The Arabs/Muslims claimed they are related to Ishmael so they can gain some sort of respect or legitimacy with the God of the bible. Arabs came from various pagan desert dwelling tribes, with little or no special connection to Abraham.

It was posted before that under Sharia law, lying is sanctioned to overcome enemies. Well, those two beliefs stated above are the two main lies every Muslim believes, and most Christians hear and believe these same myths.

Let's call it what it is - Islam is ancient tribal paganism, dressed up to look and sound like a genuine Abrahamic religion like Judaism or Christianity. They don't worship the "one true God", they actually worship a rock from space, a meteorite. The direction in which they pray to is in the direction of where the meteorite resides. Here you can see where they worship and kiss the black stone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

They claim this black stone fell to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and was rediscovered by Abraham. This is all myths and nonsense.

According to the Bible the only "black" thing that fell from heaven to the Garden of Eden was Satan. Black stones have special relevance in some of the ancient pagan religions - this is where the idea comes from. So do Muslims worship Satan? Yes.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Islams claim to Israel rests upon these two beliefs:

1.All Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael;
2. Muhammad went to Jerusalem.

Both of these statements are historical nonsense (some arabs may have been descendants of Ishmael, but not all), and Muhammad never went to Jerusalem.

The Arabs/Muslims claimed they are related to Ishmael so they can gain some sort of respect or legitimacy with the God of the bible. Arabs came from various pagan desert dwelling tribes, with little or no special connection to Abraham.

It's a mixture of fact and myth, just like their Koran is a mixture of scripture and myth. No, Mohammed never ascended from Jerusalem, but many desert arabs have descended from Ishmael. According to prophecy, God greatly multiplied the seed of Abraham and Hagar, Ishmael and his descendants, which cannot even be numbered. They are described as a wild as of a man with his hand against all others. Ishmael had 12 sons, who became 12 tribes, and God promised to make him a great nation, which today stretches from Egypt to Iraq.