Brotherly Love the Source of Oneness?

[OBW]

It is refreshing to see those who still hold to the basics of the LC realizing this and articulating it in such a manner. Some may feel that they have a long way to go, but this step is huge.

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

Hopefully one day those groups that leave the LCS will not define and identify themselves in antithesis and thus we will not see the LSM mentioned in their local websites or better yet: not mentioned at all!

[Peter Debelak]

Originally Posted by djohnson

Hopefully one day those groups that leave the LCS will not define and identify themselves in antithesis and thus we will not see the LSM mentioned in their local websites or better yet: not mentioned at all!

To day "hopefully", I think, is too presumtuous. Being fairly removed from the "LC", its often been easy for me to look upon it like a sick child. And to look upon dialogue on these boards like a committe of wise parents - sometimes warring about alternatives, but united in assessment about the childishness.

That, I say to myself now, is unfair.

Reference to LSM in a thought-provoking publication is not an indication of still-yet-far-to-go. In ANY articulation of a point - especially in a realm that is so enmeshed in subjective assessments - there will always be a FOIL (even if the speaker does not acknowledge one).

While its important that the FOIL doesn't become a caricature, which shields all other manner of missteps, (e.g. you're all good - so long as you don't do what "those guys" did), I think the practice is valuable - and not just in an "emerging-state" way. Our relation to what we've been in, what we are in now and what we observe outside of our sphere will always be the basis of our opinions. What is important is whether we realize, in all that assessment, is whether we need a SAVIOR, rather than a medal, after our realizations. Not how far we are from some identifiable group.

There isn't a "hopefully" in terms of where LCers should end up, in my opinion. There is simply a, where are you Lord? That might mean assessing where we've come from. It might mean embracing the unknown.

His wisdom is multifarious and his grace is varied, given to each of us. How His gifts plays out and how His light shines as things move onward, is far beyond our categorizing minds.

So, I guess what I'm saying is: can we, even those skeptical or condemning of the LC and its forms, hear in our brothers' words a seeking, even if the result doesn't match our own present state? Can we love their interaction with the Lord in the place they are at...? And value that as much as a brother who might agree with our substantive opinions more, but is no more seeking?

Does that make sense?

Peter

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

Yes it does make sense Peter. However if a church in Akron, etc can only define itself in antithesis to LSM I'm sure what they'll discover is their appeal and outreach will be limited because most Christians and non-believers in their city do not share their historical narrative i.e. their story. Their story is very parochial. If I read their website as a Christian in Akron thinking of visiting them I would ask: "What is LSM and what does it have to do with meeting and working together as Christians in Akron?" E.g. if ABC church in Akron has a bad experience with Zondervan publishers and they post it on their website I would find that peculiar. Instead of focusing on Christ and working together to build up the church I would be focused on: "What's this about Zondervan?" If it was a tiny relatively unknown publisher like LSM then I would really think it strange.

[Norm]

djohnson,

If you knew the history of those in Akron you would understand the relevance of these articles and the need to define itself in antithesis to LSM. After nearly forty years of being in the public eye they are not a little unknown group. WL used this city as an early base of operations. Many newspaper article were produced. The Christian community in that city would find it very educational as to the present stand of those meeting as the church in Akron.

As you have stated many times, you were never associated with the LC/LSM; therefore you have no way to comprehend the fight that these believers are passing through. Distant theoretical observations do little to address the actual situation. Your words of advice are like someone who has never been in a military battle advising a wounded soldier to just let it go and get on with life. Once wounded you live a different life than those around you.

Email Paul Kerr, he'll tell you.

[djohnson(XLCmember)]

Norm I think you are missing my argument. The advantage I have is being an outsider.

I am merely using Akron as an example since it has been posted here. The experience of being wounded is a universal that most human beings can relate to at some level. The experience of being wounded by LSM is not a universal. So if a church on their website says: we are a place filled with the wounded, worn out, etc and Christ is the answer to our condition please come and join us. That is one thing. And most honest human beings will be able to relate to it. If however a church says we are a place filled with those wounded specifically by LSM please come and join us that is another appeal. E.g. if I have been wounded in WW2 and you have been wounded in Vietnam there is a difference between a group for wounded vets and wounded vets from Vietnam.

Suppose some people do come but they have been wounded by ABC ministry not LSM. Will their problem with ABC ministry be posted on the church website? And if so what is the church saying about themselves and if not why not?

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

To day "hopefully", I think, is too presumtuous. Being fairly removed from the "LC", its often been easy for me to look upon it like a sick child. And to look upon dialogue on these boards like a committee of wise parents - sometimes warring about alternatives, but united in assessment about the childishness.
That, I say to myself now, is unfair.

Thanks Peter for you input. Good to hear from you.
Of course "assessment" is a rather neutral thing - in and of itself, it is nether good nor bad, neither fair nor unfair. It's what we do with the assessment that can be good or bad, fair or unfair. As ex members, who have had substantial experience with the Local Church, and who may have loved ones still in the movement, it is altogether natural that we make assessments regarding the history and current state of affairs in the LC movement.

Now, to the extent that a person, or even whole church, remains within a certain "system" (albeit disassociated with headquarters) or remains faithful to certain set of beliefs and teachings (in this case of Nee & Lee) this will be extent to which they may fall under the "assessments" of others.

This being said I have never heard anyone on this forum claim (or even imply) that they are part of "a committee of wise parents". Most of us probably have a hard enough time convincing our own children that we are wise parents, much less convincing a whole group of people. Nevertheless, many of us have made some assessments of what we experienced and learned from our time in the LC, and we have also made some assessments regarding some of the things that went on behind the scenes unbeknown to us. For better or for worse, the Internet has afforded some of us the chance to make the results of our "assessments" known to world.

...What is important is whether we realize, in all that assessment, is whether we need a SAVIOR,

Amen to this!

There isn't a "hopefully" in terms of where LCers should end up, in my opinion. There is simply a, where are you Lord? That might mean assessing where we've come from. It might mean embracing the unknown.

Ah, but this is where all of us bitter ex members come in! We walked into the unknown because we had no other choice. We ran into a lot walls, knocked our heads against a lot of low branches, fell into a lot pits, sunk neck-deep into the quicksand, you name it... we ran into it or fell into it. (reminds me of that saying..."we found the enemy..and it's us!") So my advise is (just as a brother, not a wise parent) to the brothers and sisters in the church in Akron, or others so situated, take advantage of us...ask us how we got that big lump on our head, or that bit gash on our face, or even how we lost that limb! Most of us will be happy to tell you. Nobody has to "embrace the unknown" anymore. Praise God for this. And this is one of the biggest reasons that this forum exists.

So, I guess what I'm saying is: can we, even those skeptical or condemning of the LC and its forms, hear in our brothers' words a seeking, even if the result doesn't match our own present state?

We hear! We Hear! And that's why we're here!