Ground of Locality and Generality

[Cal]

Originally Posted by tasteslikegold

As a side note (and one which I find particularly fascinating) one of the main items of contention between Witness Lee (That is, his teachings) and his detractors is the footnote in Rev. 17 which identifies the sects in Christianity as the harlots. For a few hundred years Protestants had absolutely no problem with the identification of the mother of the Harlots, Babylon, as being the Roman Church (in fact Martin Luther taught this very thing). Yet when it came to Lee's identification of the harlots as being, "all the different sects and groups in Christianity that hold to some extent the teaching, practices, and traditions of the apostate Roman Church," the issue became something entirely different. How dare Witness Lee call Protestant Christianity a bunch of harlots (Despite the fact that he clearly identified them as being those who "hold to some extent the teaching, practices and traditions of the apostate Roman Church")! This, in and of itself, smacks of hypocrisy.

Well, when someone starts saying that everyone is a harlot except the group he founded then people are going to get indignant. And I don't recall Lee saying the daughter harlots were offshoots which hold to RC stuff. I recall him saying that all Protestant churches were harlots and "free groups" were the fornicating daughters of Moab. But his group was the pure and spotless Bride. Well, how convenient.

If Lee had said something like "we all are harlots" or "we all have been harlots from time to time" then maybe people would have listened. But he said "you're a harlot and I'm not." Who is going to listen to that? Self-righteousness is not a convincing platform from which to persuade skeptics. It usually just makes people want to tell you to stick it.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Well, when someone starts saying that everyone is a harlot except the group he founded then people are going to get indignant. And I don't recall Lee saying the daughter harlots were offshoots which hold to RC stuff. I recall him saying that all Protestant churches were harlots and "free groups" were the fornicating daughters of Moab. But his group was the pure and spotless Bride. Well, how convenient.

Yeppers...I was there for those meetings too. My 'eyes' were really 'opened'.

To build on what Igzy wrote, there may be truth to the denominations/non denominations being an offshoot from the mother harlot...BUT, many people left because they saw through the RCC...The clergy laity system has been around 'forever' too...nothing WRONG with teaching people from the Word of God, God desires a pure and spotless Bride...and WILL get his Pure and Spotless Bride.

But Lee had a very arrogant attitude with his presentations. He manipulated people in the LC to believe the LC under HIS MINISTRY was 'God's ordained way'...and it was through the LC, the Lord was going to get His Bride. He put a FEAR factor onto people. "Wow...if I leave the LC, I won't be part of the Bride!' That's why people were and are afraid to leave the LSM/LC today. Does God want some people to be in the LSM/LC...sure..He has has His reasons...God uses people in every sector of Christianity out there. When their job is complete, God lets them know and releases them.

[tasteslikegold]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Well, when someone starts saying that everyone is a harlot except the group he founded then people are going to get indignant. And I don't recall Lee saying the daughter harlots were offshoots which hold to RC stuff. I recall him saying that all Protestant churches were harlots and "free groups" were the fornicating daughters of Moab. But his group was the pure and spotless Bride. Well, how convenient.

Complete quotations with citations, please. I've evidenced what the footnote clearly states. If you don't recall it, then you weren't paying attention.

If Lee had said something like "we all are harlots" or "we all have been harlots from time to time" then maybe people would have listened. But he said "you're a harlot and I'm not." Who is going to listen to that? Self-righteousness is not a convincing platform from which to persuade skeptics. It usually just makes people want to tell you to stick it.

Untrue. If a person - any person - interpreted the verse and said, "these are the harlots," and then "here's how we can avoid being the harlots," then people may or may not listen, depending upon how they are apt to receive the message. The simple fact of the matter is that "God hates our religion." Both Nee and Lee were unapologetic about saying so in a variety of ways. Some of those ways offended popular Christianity, so that made them "cult leaders." How long did it finally take for "popular Christianity" to see the error of their ways and acknowledge the valid point these two brothers had? More then 30 years.