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[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The march for science was a first step. Scientists are organizing locally. The goal is to get scientists and pro-science people elected to public office at every level and then to change laws and policies in a direction conducive to science. If people adopt your position, defeat is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

We were in a position at the time of king Solomon (archaeologists have discovered Solomon's mines and they were being run according to the concepts developed during the industrial revolution) to fully develop the industrial revolution with all of its pollution and learning curve. There was a 700 year period from Solomon to the invasion of Babylon. If Israel had undergone a 700 year period of industrial and technological revolution (we have had 150 years) then it is reasonable to assume they would have had trains, skyscrapers, cars, and airplanes. They probably would have had so much pollution that they would have discovered wind turbines and solar.

Therefore when the rest of the world discovered and then adopted this we could have skipped the toxic portion of burning fossil fuel. We could have avoided all of the ecological disasters we have seen this last 150 years and we would have avoided the human catastrophe resulting from these various empires invading each other (Roman Empire, Greek Empire, Medo Persian Empire, and Babylonian Empire). They all would have been stopped by Israel.

Also, you can forget about Ghenghis Khan or even the Crusades.

But man chose a different path, that of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence". Wars, rape, pillage, coveting, stealing, etc.

This is what drove the policy to invade Iraq. The biggest natural reserves of oil in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia (which had booby trapped their oil fields with dirty nuclear bombs) was Iraq. A very big gas field was discovered in Turkmenistan, which we got access to when we invaded Afghanistan.

This is not about the science, or understanding the science. The US government has understood the science for years and the Pentagon has already put plans in place for the catastrophe of climate change. Hence the call to "build a wall", "Brexit", or "Ms. Le Pen".

Even if the US were to convert tomorrow to being carbon neutral it would be too little too late. We are already in a negative feedback loop with methane hydrates escaping to the atmosphere and a huge loss in ice which reflects sunlight replaced by open ocean which absorbs the light. Most of our dirty factories have already moved to Asia, Mexico and the rest of the third world. We have already passed certain very key milestones, unprecedented CO2 levels in the atmosphere causing acidification of the ocean. Huge loss of biodiversity and habitat, weakening the ability of the Earth to bounce back. Incredible carbon pollution from the burning of fossil fuel and methane from cows. 7 billion people are like a huge ocean liner, it doesn't stop or turn quickly.

Climate change is upon us. If you live within 200 feet of sea level you should move to higher ground while you can still get market value for your home. Other than that prepare for Mad Max to run the country. One day you will reminisce about the good old days when Trump was your biggest worry.

Also, if you have a problem with the Bible talking about Hell fire, try visiting oil development of tar sands in Canada. Visit the oil field in Texas. Visit the land on fire in Pennsylvania. You will smell the sulfur, you will see the hellscape, just don't drink the water. You were warned that we were on a path that leads to hell, you didn't believe it, and now you can see the outskirts as we get closer and closer.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We were in a position at the time of king Solomon (archaeologists have discovered Solomon's mines and they were being run according to the concepts developed during the industrial revolution) to fully develop the industrial revolution with all of its pollution and learning curve. There was a 700 year period from Solomon to the invasion of Babylon. If Israel had undergone a 700 year period of industrial and technological revolution (we have had 150 years) then it is reasonable to assume they would have had trains, skyscrapers, cars, and airplanes. They probably would have had so much pollution that they would have discovered wind turbines and solar.

Therefore when the rest of the world discovered and then adopted this we could have skipped the toxic portion of burning fossil fuel. We could have avoided all of the ecological disasters we have seen this last 150 years and we would have avoided the human catastrophe resulting from these various empires invading each other (Roman Empire, Greek Empire, Medo Persian Empire, and Babylonian Empire). They all would have been stopped by Israel.

Also, you can forget about Ghenghis Khan or even the Crusades.

But man chose a different path, that of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence". Wars, rape, pillage, coveting, stealing, etc.

This is what drove the policy to invade Iraq. The biggest natural reserves of oil in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia (which had booby trapped their oil fields with dirty nuclear bombs) was Iraq. A very big gas field was discovered in Turkmenistan, which we got access to when we invaded Afghanistan.

This is not about the science, or understanding the science. The US government has understood the science for years and the Pentagon has already put plans in place for the catastrophe of climate change. Hence the call to "build a wall", "Brexit", or "Ms. Le Pen".

Even if the US were to convert tomorrow to being carbon neutral it would be too little too late. We are already in a negative feedback loop with methane hydrates escaping to the atmosphere and a huge loss in ice which reflects sunlight replaced by open ocean which absorbs the light. Most of our dirty factories have already moved to Asia, Mexico and the rest of the third world. We have already passed certain very key milestones, unprecedented CO2 levels in the atmosphere causing acidification of the ocean. Huge loss of biodiversity and habitat, weakening the ability of the Earth to bounce back. Incredible carbon pollution from the burning of fossil fuel and methane from cows. 7 billion people are like a huge ocean liner, it doesn't stop or turn quickly.

Climate change is upon us. If you live within 200 feet of sea level you should move to higher ground while you can still get market value for your home. Other than that prepare for Mad Max to run the country. One day you will reminisce about the good old days when Trump was your biggest worry.

Also, if you have a problem with the Bible talking about Hell fire, try visiting oil development of tar sands in Canada. Visit the oil field in Texas. Visit the land on fire in Pennsylvania. You will smell the sulfur, you will see the hellscape, just don't drink the water. You were warned that we were on a path that leads to hell, you didn't believe it, and now you can see the outskirts as we get closer and closer.

Goodness bro ZNP, your suppositions and extrapolations, are mind boggling. And are too much to buy into. But you have to know that already.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Goodness bro ZNP, your suppositions and extrapolations, are mind boggling. And are too much to buy into. But you have to know that already.

If you buy oil or coal you already have boughten into it.

11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.

12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!

14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.

15 The haters of the Lord should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured for ever.

16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.

I prefer to buy into the Lord's word, rather than those who walk according to their own counsel and lusts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If you buy oil or coal you already have boughten into it.

11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.

12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!

14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.

15 The haters of the Lord should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured for ever.

16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.

I prefer to buy into the Lord's word, rather than those who walk according to their own counsel and lusts.

Thanks for the pic to remind me how much the EPA cares about our great American resources.

Perhaps another pic from Flint showing us how well the EPA is caring for our drinking water.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thanks for the pic to remind me how much the EPA cares about our great American resources.

And how about our cops. All these hundreds of years and they haven't stopped crime. Let's do away with cops. They ain't no count.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

[Quotes from Psalms]

I prefer to buy into the Lord's word, rather than those who walk according to their own counsel and lusts.

You do realize that those verses you quoted weren't talking about the Bible don't you?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

You do realize that those verses you quoted weren't talking about the Bible don't you?

I realize that your Biblical interpretation is biased and not credible. You convinced me with your recent discussion on Mark 9. Though there has been plenty prior to that. So if you have Bible commentary from someone credible I would be happy to respond to that.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I realize that your Biblical interpretation is biased and not credible. You convinced me with your recent discussion on Mark 9. Though there has been plenty prior to that. So if you have Bible commentary from someone credible I would be happy to respond to that.

You may be at least a little correct concerning awareness. But when you start pontificating about the proximity of an industrial revolution because there were some methods in Solomon's mines potentially similar to those used in the 1700s and 1800s in the West, your credibility slips. And when you take any verse that talks about one thing and apply it to anything you want, it slips just a little bit further.

Nee and Lee worked hard to make nonsense out of the Bible. You may not like their nonsense, but you seem to be working just as hard to take the Bible where it otherwise does not go. Just to a different place than Nee and Lee did.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

You may be at least a little correct concerning awareness. But when you start pontificating about the proximity of an industrial revolution because there were some methods in Solomon's mines potentially similar to those used in the 1700s and 1800s in the West, your credibility slips. And when you take any verse that talks about one thing and apply it to anything you want, it slips just a little bit further.

Nee and Lee worked hard to make nonsense out of the Bible. You may not like their nonsense, but you seem to be working just as hard to take the Bible where it otherwise does not go. Just to a different place than Nee and Lee did.

So try reading National Geographic:

King Solomon's Mines Rediscovered?
Rebecca Carroll
for National Geographic News
October 28, 2008
Copper mines in southern Jordan were active centuries earlier than previously believed, according to a new study that suggests the area was producing the metal at the same time the biblical figure of King Solomon is said to have built Jerusalem's first Jewish temple.
Industrial-scale metal production was occurring at a site in Jordan in the tenth century B.C., according to the study's carbon dating of ancient industrial mining debris and analysis of the settlement's layout.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-missions.html

There are six factors that led to the industrial revolution

1. Industrial production — by all accounts archaeologists have determined that King’s Solomon’s mines did exist and produced iron and copper on an industrial scale.

2. Agricultural production — again, check.

3. Iron Smelting — check

4. Coal extraction — I assume they used coal for their smelting operation. It could have been charcoal.

5. The railways — they did not have this but needed it. According to the archaelogists they must have had a massively long camel train to transport the metal being smelted at the scale that was taking place.

6. Steam power — again they did not have this. But they had the need.

The embargo act of 1807 had a big impact on pushing the US towards an industrial revolution because we had to produce the goods that we would have otherwise imported. Moses law imposed an artificial embargo act on Solomon which he ignored. However, had he obeyed the law he would have needed coal or oil for his mines.

The war of 1812 also was a springboard for the industrial revolution because it forced us to see the need for a better transportation system. I think it is obvious that Solomon with his mines and long camel train would have also seen the need for a better transportation system.

Other key factors were natural resources — iron and coal. Israel has both. Economic strength, Israel had this at the time of Solomon. Political stability, Israel had this at the time of Solomon.

The description of Solomon as the “wisest man on earth” and how he had his servants in perfect order, with clockwork precision. This is the environment that would be ideal for making the key improvements for the industrial revolution.

In 600 BC a basic form of the railway existed in Ancient Greece and Roman times called “the rutway”. I do not think it is far fetched to suggest that Solomon could have also come up with something like that.

Heron of Alexandria had invented a number of gadgets that used steam power for various purposes. This was about 1,000 years after Solomon, but a good 1600 years before the invention of the steam engine. Once again, boiling water, seeing steam, and understanding how it works is not very complicated. The concept is relatively simple if you have the tools and capital to fabricate the metal parts. It would have been a great discovery had it taken place at the time of Solomon. My point is, necessity is the mother of invention. If Solomon had submitted to the self imposed embargo of Moses he would have had the need and according to the Bible “the wisest man on Earth” certainly had the resources and manpower to invent this.

It is not reasonable to think of any other time. After Solomon the Kingdom was split, then they were invaded by Babylonians, and from that point on it was one empire after another sweeping through Israel.

Obviously this is a hypothetical. But there are certain things that are not hypothetical.

1. Solomon's mines
2. Solomon's need for energy in smelting
3. Solomon's need for a better transportation system for his mines
4. Stabile government
5. Resources to do what was necessary
6. Strong centralized govt
7. Wise leader

It is not a leap to think he would have created a prototype of a railway.

Once he had a railway had he obeyed the self imposed embargo it would have been extraordinary if they had then invented the steam engine, but from a scientific or technological viewpoint that also would not have been a big leap. You have all the resources, you have the need, you have a railway, now you need an engine.

Ask yourself "at what point did we take this fork in the road that led to catastrophic climate change and Armageddon being inevitable?" What was the instruction from God that we ignored? Obviously you don't like my suggestion that it was Solomon so why don't you tell me when it was?

Also, please note, I think this is a reasonable interpretation of Ps 81.