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[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

Why do we think that Trump is God's chosen? Because God is sovereign?

If so, they does that mean that God thought 8 years of Obama was a good thing? If so then we have to rethink the prior 8 years.

God is good and God is good all the time. So yes. 8 years of Obama was good. Regardless of who is in power, we have to pray for the leaders. Do we have to like them or agree with everything they do. No.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

God is good and God is good all the time. So yes. 8 years of Obama was good. Regardless of who is in power, we have to pray for the leaders. Do we have to like them or agree with everything they do. No.

Finally something that we can at least partly agree on.

We get what we get and we are charged to pray for all of them.

What we may not agree on is whether God is specifically deciding who will be president (at least in all cases). And if I am right on this (that part of God's sovereignty is exercised in restraint as man exercises his free will) and he might only sometimes direct things, then I cannot say that which ones are which and decide that God would vote Republican, or Democrat. It is clear that if he is actively sovereign in all of it that God does not simply "vote Republican" because we have gotten some that are very "not Republican." And I am not sure what to say about the present Republican (if he really is one).

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

Finally something that we can at least partly agree on.

We get what we get and we are charged to pray for all of them.

What we may not agree on is whether God is specifically deciding who will be president (at least in all cases). And if I am right on this (that part of God's sovereignty is exercised in restraint as man exercises his free will) and he might only sometimes direct things, then I cannot say that which ones are which and decide that God would vote Republican, or Democrat. It is clear that if he is actively sovereign in all of it that God does not simply "vote Republican" because we have gotten some that are very "not Republican." And I am not sure what to say about the present Republican (if he really is one).

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

Jesus is Lord. The real leadership is in place. The NT does not in any way, shape or form suggest that there is a path for salvation apart from Him and that includes climate change legislation, etc. Because of that WN erroneously teaches that Christians should not be involved in the political process (Post #1).

I see this differently. Apart from the Lord we can do nothing. But if Jesus is one with you then I see no reason why you can't "preach the good news" to the issues. After all the Lord gave us talents to invest and we have been told to go out into the entire world, surely that includes the political arena as well, and preach the gospel. And, He promised to be with us to the end of days.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Jesus is Lord. The real leadership is in place. The NT does not in any way, shape or form suggest that there is a path for salvation apart from Him and that includes climate change legislation, etc. Because of that WN erroneously teaches that Christians should not be involved in the political process (Post #1).

I see this differently. Apart from the Lord we can do nothing. But if Jesus is one with you then I see no reason why you can't "preach the good news" to the issues. After all the Lord gave us talents to invest and we have been told to go out into the entire world, surely that includes the political arena as well, and preach the gospel. And, He promised to be with us to the end of days.

That's about involvement. I'm talking about prayer. Whatever decisions Trump makes affects where, when, and how the gospel is spread around the world. Christianity flourished under Constantine. Trump is more powerful than Constantine. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we are talking about different aspects.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That's about involvement. I'm talking about prayer. Whatever decisions Trump makes affects where, when, and how the gospel is spread around the world. Christianity flourished under Constantine. Trump is more powerful than Constantine. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we are talking about different aspects.

"Christianity flourished under Constantine"? I assume you are referring to man made religion and not the Body of Christ.

"Trump is more powerful than Constantine" -- How? How is someone in a government with the checks and balances of our constitution and the scrutiny of our press, in a world where we understand "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press" to be our right, how is he more powerful than Constantine? Constantine was an emperor of the only superpower, Trump has to deal with other powers like China, Russia, Japan, Europe, India, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"Christianity flourished under Constantine"? I assume you are referring to man made religion and not the Body of Christ.

Both I guess.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"Trump is more powerful than Constantine" -- How? How is someone in a government with the checks and balances of our constitution and the scrutiny of our press, in a world where we understand "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press" to be our right, how is he more powerful than Constantine? Constantine was an emperor of the only superpower, Trump has to deal with other powers like China, Russia, Japan, Europe, India, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.

Territory wise, the USA is larger than the Roman Empire. Population too. Militarily, the USA is more powerful than the ancient Roman Empire. Financially, USA is richer than the ancient Roman Empire.

Roman military spending was 2.5% of the empire's GDP. USA is what now, 3-4%?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

Who the president is has nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

And if all we have is prayer we're in trouble.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Who the president is has nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

And if all we have is prayer we're in trouble.

Emperor Constantine would disagree with you.