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Old 11-24-2017, 09:33 AM   #1
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Roy Moore's candidacy represents a double slam on women. He advocates taking away a woman's right to choose and ignoring women who testify that he sexually assaulted them when they were children. Woman bashing in the name of the Bible seems to be a pretty consistent theme for this guy.
Well prolly Moore has a small penis. And that's why he wants little girls. His religious posturing is just sublimating for his manly lack. Controlling women is the fruit of it, making women subservient ... like the Bible says.

It reminds me of the Southern Baptists, using the Bible in support of slavery.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:53 AM   #2
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It reminds me of the Southern Baptists, using the Bible in support of slavery.
There are a couple of very important principles here that go far beyond Alabama politics.

1. All of these abuse claims, not just Moore but also Weinstein, Franken, etc generally boil down to "he said, she said". Therefore you shouldn't discount it or dismiss it simply because this is the type of evidence. On the contrary, the predators understand this which is why they have the boldness to pull this stuff. Instead the Biblical standard that I think applies here is 2 or 3 witnesses as a bare minimum. Whenever we see a sexual predator like Weinstein there will be multiple cases, not a single case.

2. Political campaigns are about destroying credibility, especially if you are in a campaign where no one in your party has won in many years. The only possible chance the democrat had was if Moore self destructed. You should expect that they will turn molehills into mountains. When these stories come out right after the deadline to change names on the ballot they should be especially suspect. If we begin to eliminate candidates based on hearsay and allegations then these campaigns will become even uglier.

3. There are facts in this case that can be used to inform voters. One fact is that Moore has never been charged with this crime of pedophilia, much less convicted. Another fact is that the Mall was on the lookout for him seeing him as someone that targeted teenage girls. Based on that you can reasonably conclude that he was a creep, but that it didn't rise to the level of a case that a prosecutor would prosecute. However, the discourse on this is quite different, many willing to call him a "pedophile" even though he was never convicted of this crime.

4. It is important to weigh the evidence and discuss the evidence in order to make an informed decision, but most of those who have shaped the discourse clearly are biased on one side or the other. This is quite evident concerning the media's reporting.

5. One of the ugliest allegations is that a "vote for Roy Moore is a vote for sexual predators". The inference is that democrats are concerned about women while republicans aren't. If the allegations that Roy Moore was a sexual predator are true it would mean that women, many women, have known this for 30+ years. However, they did not come forward until well into this campaign, so far in fact that it was no longer possible to drop his name. This is not evidence that they care about women, but rather they would risk a predator being elected if it gives them a better chance of gaining a seat. Someone who truly cared about women would have raised this issue earlier.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:45 PM   #3
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I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?
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Old 11-25-2017, 07:42 PM   #4
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I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?
Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:35 PM   #5
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Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.
Experience has taught me that, when pursuing the truth, demonizing others isn't helpful.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:59 PM   #6
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Perhaps those who regularly confront the stratagems of the devil are more apt to see thru a Bezos/WaPo smear campaign.
You forgot to list The Alabama Local News (www.al.com). The stratagems of the devil has broken new accusers there too.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:36 AM   #7
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You forgot to list The Alabama Local News (www.al.com). The stratagems of the devil has broken new accusers there too.
If you were still evangelical, perhaps you would exhibit a little discernment too.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:48 AM   #8
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If you were still evangelical, perhaps you would exhibit a little discernment too.
I'd prolly still be an evangelical if their discernment's were actually up to snuff. I long ago discovered their discernment wasn't any better than those of unbelievers.
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:25 AM   #9
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I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?
It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:42 AM   #10
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It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.
Amen! Amen! and another Amen!
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.
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Amen! Amen! and another Amen!
That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.

Why? Because, everyone knows it's wrong, except, apparently, evangelicals ... then it's Mary, and Elizabeth, did it.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:29 PM   #12
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That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.

Why? Because, everyone knows it's wrong, except, apparently, evangelicals ... then it's Mary, and Elizabeth, did it.
Yes, everyone knows it is wrong. There are other things that are wrong as well. Convicting a man without a trial. Slander, libel are two others.

If the choice was between an innocent and guilty man then you would have an argument. Problem is the choice is between two guilty parties. That is the problem with your argument, you point out the guilt of one side and ignore the guilt of the other.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:46 AM   #13
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That pesky 14th amendment. It's been a thorn in the side of fundamentalist's since shorty after the civil war. First with the slaves, then racial segregation, then Roe v. Wade, and then same sex marriage.

But it doesn't say anything about fondling 14 year old girls ... even with the permission of their mother.
Does it say anything about rich liberals paying loose women to bring forth false charges? Without the permission of her mother?
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:41 PM   #14
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It tells me that his stance on abortion is the major issue for them.

If you are so concerned with finding the truth and not demonizing others then surely you can realize that the Supreme court has no authority to make laws. There was nothing in the Constitution concerning abortion, therefore it should have been a states right to decide.

The decision in Roe V Wade was unconstitutional. That is the underlying cause of all this ugly division.
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1972) was concerned with the constitutionality of state criminal abortion statutes under the 14th Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions on state action and the 9th Amendment's reservation of rights to the people. In the opinion of the Court:

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It is thus apparent that, at common law, at the time of the adoption of our Constitution, and throughout the major portion of the 19th century, abortion was viewed with less disfavor than under most American statutes currently in effect. Phrasing it another way, a woman enjoyed a substantially broader right to terminate a pregnancy than she does in most States today. At least with respect to the early stage of pregnancy, and very possibly without such a limitation, the opportunity to make this choice was present in this country well into the 19th century. Even later, the law continued for some time to treat less punitively an abortion procured in early pregnancy.
So, the Supreme Court didn't make any laws, and the opinion of the Court was constitutional.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:33 PM   #15
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Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1972) was concerned with the constitutionality of state criminal abortion statutes under the 14th Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions on state action and the 9th Amendment's reservation of rights to the people. In the opinion of the Court:



So, the Supreme Court didn't make any laws, and the opinion of the Court was constitutional.
The opinion of the court was that a woman's right to an abortion was constitutionally supported based on a vague reading to the "right to privacy". The law concerning unreasonable searches was used to cover the right to abortion. So the same people who complain with the constitutional "right to bear arms" are the same who can justify abortion using the protection against unreasonable search without a warrant. That to me is the height of hypocrisy.

Think of the irony that the restrictions on abortion are tighter and more stringent now than prior to the ruling. If the Supreme court had simply argued that this is a state's rights issue what would have happened? Some states would have outlawed it, perhaps Texas would be in that category, hard to tell. Some states would have put in restrictions and regulations, probably NY and California would be in that category. Some states would have legalized it completely, perhaps Nevada, etc. But you would have taken the rug out from any who would protest. Against abortion, move to where it is illegal. For abortion, what is the big issue, if you don't want to move simply go out of state when necessary.

Not only would this have put a stop to most protests, it would have also eliminated it from the discourse in national politics. Congressmen, Senators and presidents would not need to say anything more than "that is a state's right issue". As for local politicians it could easily have become a referendum issue, just like legalizing Pot or some other topic.

So instead of blaming Evangelicals why not look in the mirror? The man in the mirror is the only one you have authority to change. Blaming Evangelicals suggest to me you aren't really serious about a solution.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:12 PM   #16
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The opinion of the court was that a woman's right to an abortion was constitutionally supported based on a vague reading to the "right to privacy". The law concerning unreasonable searches was used to cover the right to abortion. So the same people who complain with the constitutional "right to bear arms" are the same who can justify abortion using the protection against unreasonable search without a warrant. That to me is the height of hypocrisy.

Think of the irony that the restrictions on abortion are tighter and more stringent now than prior to the ruling. If the Supreme court had simply argued that this is a state's rights issue what would have happened? Some states would have outlawed it, perhaps Texas would be in that category, hard to tell. Some states would have put in restrictions and regulations, probably NY and California would be in that category. Some states would have legalized it completely, perhaps Nevada, etc. But you would have taken the rug out from any who would protest. Against abortion, move to where it is illegal. For abortion, what is the big issue, if you don't want to move simply go out of state when necessary.

Not only would this have put a stop to most protests, it would have also eliminated it from the discourse in national politics. Congressmen, Senators and presidents would not need to say anything more than "that is a state's right issue". As for local politicians it could easily have become a referendum issue, just like legalizing Pot or some other topic.

So instead of blaming Evangelicals why not look in the mirror? The man in the mirror is the only one you have authority to change. Blaming Evangelicals suggest to me you aren't really serious about a solution.
Put down the crack pipe man. I didn't blame Evangelicals for anything. It was a statement of putative fact. I read it in several periodicals including the WSJ.
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:29 AM   #17
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I read that support for Roy Moore has fallen in every voter sector except among evangelical Christians. What does that say to the world?
Sounds like progressive talking points ...

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