Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Telling that with the massive evidence of climate change in the past year all you can cite is an skewed hit piece in a right wing rag known for its racism and misogyny.

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

This climate change thing is taken for granted I think you and others who blindly accept it have never assessed all the facts for yourself. This is part of a one world government attempt to unite all the countries under anti christ. Can I get a witness?

[Ohio]

PATHETIC: Calif Liberal College Uses Football Game to Mock the state of Texas, The Border Wall, Whataburger, their School Mascot, and all things Texan, while playing in Texas!

Watch the toxic Halftime show. It's way beyond disrespectful to their hosts.

Then TCU came from behind to win the Game!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

PATHETIC: Calif Liberal College Uses Football Game to Mock the state of Texas, The Border Wall, Whataburger, their School Mascot, and all things Texan, while playing in Texas!

Watch the toxic Halftime show. It's way beyond disrespectful to their hosts.

Then TCU came from behind to win the Game!

They said very clearly that "the Whitehouse is everyones favorite source for definitely not fake news." Why do you have a problem with that?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

This climate change thing is taken for granted I think you and others who blindly accept it have never assessed all the facts for yourself. This is part of a one world government attempt to unite all the countries under anti christ. Can I get a witness?

carbon dioxide level of the atmosphere — 400 ppm

whereas for the last 400,000 years it never passed 300 and averaged closer to 250 ppm


The planet’s average surface temperature has risen about 2.0 degrees F since 1900

The top 700 meters of the oceans has increased 0.3 degrees F since 1969

Greenland has lost 36 to 60 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2006

Antarctica lost about 36 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2005

Global sea level rose about 8 inches in the last century.

Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.

The acidity of the surface of the ocean has increased about 30% since the beginning of the Industrial revolution.

We have seen the frequency, size, and power of extreme events have all increased. More extreme heat events, more extreme droughts, more extreme rainfall, more extreme tropical cyclones, more extra tropical cyclones, more wildfires.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

carbon dioxide level of the atmosphere — 400 ppm

whereas for the last 400,000 years it never passed 300 and averaged closer to 250 ppm


The planet’s average surface temperature has risen about 2.0 degrees F since 1900

The top 700 meters of the oceans has increased 0.3 degrees F since 1969

Greenland has lost 36 to 60 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2006

Antarctica lost about 36 cubic miles of ice between 2002 and 2005

Global sea level rose about 8 inches in the last century.

Arctic sea ice has declined rapidly over the last several decades.

The acidity of the surface of the ocean has increased about 30% since the beginning of the Industrial revolution.

We have seen the frequency, size, and power of extreme events have all increased. More extreme heat events, more extreme droughts, more extreme rainfall, more extreme tropical cyclones, more extra tropical cyclones, more wildfires.

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Climate is so complex it is basically a random walk and people are just fooled into thinking there is a definite cause or reason that isnt really there.

Take a look at the global temp charts they look just like the stock market. Scientists are still trying to predict the future on random walks.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Hey Evangelical, you got one right!

And you'll be happy to know our new puppy is an aussie!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey Evangelical, you got one right!

And you'll be happy to know our new puppy is an aussie!

No, he didn't. The first point I mentioned was the increase in CO2 levels to over 400ppm, the first time we have been above 300 ppm in the last 400,000 years. That is clearly the result of the industrial revolution and it is the inferred cause of climate change.

All of the "symptoms" confirm the diagnosis. The cause is the burning fossil fuel, the burning of the rain forest, and the huge herds of cows and pigs.

I saw Al Gore's sequel and thought it was very interesting, though certainly not going to appeal to the masses. He begins with various senators and congressmen ridiculing the first movie and talking about the exaggeration and hyperbole. They were especially outraged at a projection that he made in the movie that with sea level rise the World Trade Center would be flooded. Then after letting us hear their ridicule he then cuts to news footage of the World Trade Center being flooded during hurricane Sandy.

After that he cuts to a Senate hearing where one Senator was literally spitting angry at him, asking him questions, but as he would answer just cutting him off and being a jerk. Eventually the chairman had to step in and tell them that they cannot ask a question unless they will give the witness a minute to answer.

He then cuts to a visit he took to Greenland. He goes on the ice and meets with the scientists on the ice who have been there since 2001. That is a very big contrast. On the one hand you have those screaming every insult and ridicule they can without the slightest evidence, never visiting the scientists, never wanting to hear from them.

Perhaps the most striking visual to me, which most viewers would miss, was the ladder he had to climb to get into the camp on Greenland. It isn't clear why they would build this camp ten feet in the air and then use an aluminum ladder to get up into it. But later you see a picture of the camp the year before. It was built on the ice. However, they put in posts deep into the ice to prevent the camp from falling into a crevasse, etc. The reason you have to climb up 10 feet is because that is how far the ice has melted in the last year.

However, the striking picture to most people is that of fish swimming across the roads in Miami Florida. Apparently this is a common occurrence that happens during high tide.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I saw Al Gore's sequel and thought it was very interesting, though certainly not going to appeal to the masses. He begins with various senators and congressmen ridiculing the first movie and talking about the exaggeration and hyperbole. They were especially outraged at a projection that he made in the movie that with sea level rise the World Trade Center would be flooded. Then after letting us hear their ridicule he then cuts to news footage of the World Trade Center being flooded during hurricane Sandy.

Climate Expert James Hansen:
New York Will Have Vanished Underwater by Midnight!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You have only stated symptoms. They do not explain the cause.

Increase in carbon dioxide level is not a symptom, it is the inferred cause. It is simple physics and chemistry. We knew that certain gases were "greenhouse gases" keeping in heat. Once we realized that we were increasing the greenhouse gases we hypothesized that this in turn would lead to global warming. At that time they began to carefully monitor CO2 levels in Hawaii, figuring we would get the most accurate reading in the middle of the pacific, far from the influence of various industrialized centers.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Climate is so complex it is basically a random walk and people are just fooled into thinking there is a definite cause or reason that isnt really there.

Take a look at the global temp charts they look just like the stock market. Scientists are still trying to predict the future on random walks.

Scientists have become very good at predicting weather 5 days out. To do this requires a detailed understanding of the factors involved and the role each plays. However, these factors in turn result in feedback loops and other consequences. Increase in acid in the ocean will result in the destruction of many organisms that require calcium based shells. Many of these are microscopic. That in turn will have its own consequences. When ice melts less sunlight is reflected back to space and more energy is absorbed.

The issue is not that scientists don't know the factors, the issue is we are not fully clear on how much each should be weighted and the point at which feedback loops kick in. For example, we know that once frozen methane begins to melt that is a major feedback loop. But exactly when and how much will be released at each tick up the temperature scale is still an estimate. This is why we have several different models. If the model is accurate it will predict the future climate. Therefore these models can be tested by plugging in data that is a few years old and seeing how well they predict. Every year we are able to tweak these models to make them correlate better with the actual climate. So far our models have all been undershooting the actual warming (predicting less warming than actually took place). That is strange, you would expect some models to undershoot and some to overshoot. The fact that they all undershoot imo reflects the pressure put on by the attacks and PR campaign from Exxon and others to discredit the science. As a result you are better off being overly conservative.

But you are wrong to say climate "is a random walk". It is simple physics and chemistry.

However, it is very complex. For example, the weight of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica are very great. When you remove 36 cubic miles of ice you are removing a very great weight from each of these areas. That results in something known as "isostatic rebound" -- the earth starts rising. This in turn can trigger earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. There are many "inactive" volcanos in Antarctica that we now know have recently become active. This is another feedback loop. So as the ice melts volcanic activity under the ice could pick up causing more ice to melt.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Of course. Bro Ohio told us long ago that it's all a matter of which sources of information you select to take in. Being open to all sources will lead you astray. It appears that he pictures it in his head that, liberals are feeding from poison wells of info; as well as feeding on fake news ... dished out by all the liberal news organizations, diligently conspiring together, to invent nothing but fake news.

It's all a grand conspiracy.

Furthermore, reading his views it looks to me like he sees a grand conspiracy of all the world scientists too, working in concert, day and night, relentlessly, nefariously, to discredit God and the Bible.

That's the purpose's of the astrophysicist's, and all the rest of the physicist's. Including Newton. He was one of the forerunners of this grand conspiracy.

In fact, as that picture implies, that's the whole purpose, from start to finish, of the Hubble Telescope ; to disprove the Biblical world view of the universe. Also throw in the archaeologist's, and without question, leading the way, the evolutionist's.

Methinks brother Ohio sees this grand conspiracy because he seeks to think like the authors of the Bible.

Those iron age thinkers sure can be stubborn, against learning all the new proven facts, unknown to them, of course, of the real universe, in their day. They refuse to evolve with the ever growing knowledge base of proven facts, and actually feel threatened by it/them.

I admit that learning outside of our comfort zone can be painful at times, and there's a tendency to flinch away, and back, into the cozy comfort ignorance ; the ignorance, by the way, of the iron age knowledge, or lack thereof, and their very limited world view, and stunted limited thinking.

As they say : Ignorance is bliss. I think prolly that clique was coined by those Biblical iron-agers. And I don't think that all that very limited thinking and knowledge was all that very blissful.

But some today, mostly of the conservative Christian sort, and Mooslem's (as Ohio likes to say), just love to think like those ancient iron-agers. Don't ask me why. But I think tenaciously hanging onto an old book has something to do with it. In fact, they are known as, people of the book ... not people books ... but BOOK!

Sounds like you have completely bought into Al Gore's Climate Cult.

Send your money! Buy his books and videos! Shrink your carbon footprint!

While Ozone Al gets to hobnob in the Hamptons with all his rich liberal buddies like BarryO and Leo, gallavanting around the world in his private jet rakin in the bucks. Have you seen their mansions? Their jets?

Yeah climate change! Yeah fake science!

Vote Democrat! Party of the rich and famous!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds like you have completely bought into Al Gore's Climate Cult.

Send your money! Buy his books and videos! Shrink your carbon footprint!

lol ...

If I were an Al Gore cult member I'd have to put a stick up my backside, like him. Thanks but no thanks. I've never been a fan of Al.

Originally Posted by Ohio

While Ozone Al gets to hobnob in the Hamptons with all his rich liberal buddies like BarryO and Leo, gallavanting around the world in his private jet rakin in the bucks. Have you seen their mansions? Their jets?

Their story is for you to reduce your footprint, so they can have a giant one ... don't you know? And BarryO has turned out to be quite the likable fellow ... as a recent pole shows he's the most admired person ... to your obvious dismay.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yeah climate change! Yeah fake science!

Vote Democrat! Party of the rich and famous!

I don't need to vote democrat (I'm a mugwump, remember?). The pubbies voted for those rich guys with their recent tax bill. They do their voting with money ... voting in gov'ment welfare for the rich and corporations.

Aren't you so proud of your party, for rewarding all those rich liberals? You don't like them, but they obviously do. Unlike you they put their money where their mouth is.

And like your most dear personality cult leader, president Donald J. Drumpf -- a democrat in pubbie clothing -- told his rich guests at Mar-a-Lago, hours after signing the tax bill : 'You all just got a lot richer' .... haha .... as they laugh all the way to the bank.

And bro Ohio, after that tax bill, you will no longer be able to deny that the republican party -- the party that claims, falsely obviously, to be of Christian values -- does not support the rich, at the expense of the poor ... a reverse Robin Hood. Christian values ... family values ... bahahahaha rotflmao ... such blatant in your face hypocrisy ... more hypocritical than Al Gore ... that's your party bro Ohio.

You must still be stuck with a cult mentality, or you'd have sense enough to be a mugwump ... and not hook your wagon to a party ... or sports team, for that matter.

[awareness]

Okay bro Ohio, maybe liberals aren't great. But I'll take them any day over these right wing white supremacists:

The battle for Eugene: Chilling photos reveal how white supremacists have 'taken over' a once-liberal Oregon college town with hate crimes on the rise and swastikas plastered over the walls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...egon-town.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Okay bro Ohio, maybe liberals aren't great. But I'll take them any day over these right wing white supremacists:

The battle for Eugene: Chilling photos reveal how white supremacists have 'taken over' a once-liberal Oregon college town with hate crimes on the rise and swastikas plastered over the walls

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...egon-town.html

There's no difference between left wing antifas and white supremacists, they are both hateful and violent. Maybe one difference -- antifas kill the police too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

lol ...

And bro Ohio, after that tax bill, you will no longer be able to deny that the republican party -- the party that claims, falsely obviously, to be of Christian values -- does not support the rich, at the expense of the poor ... a reverse Robin Hood. Christian values ... family values ... bahahahaha rotflmao ... such blatant in your face hypocrisy ... more hypocritical than Al Gore ... that's your party bro Ohio.

Sorry, folks, but the Republican party is not my church.

The rich wealthy blue state liberals are all in an uproar -- how can that not be good???

It will be a very happy new year!!!