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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

To be fair I was confirming the Republican senator's claim that there is a deep state. I have seen it (Arizona) and it is impressively deep. Also, there is a far more subtle and discreet deep state (New Mexico) which I have also seen first hand. Just trying to be helpful.

All jokes aside, we are at a transitional phase of the world's economy. There will be a great disruption to the existing power structure of petrodollars, and there will be an accompanying disruption to existing jobs. No longer will the US be so incredibly dominant as it once was (at one point our domestic product was equal to the rest of the world's), we are going to become a partner among equals. Some countries like Germany and Japan will be every bit as developed and cutting edge, though with slightly smaller populations, others like China and India will be a powerhouse in population and resources, but perhaps slightly lagging in development.

This is a very tough time for many people, but just like the transition during the industrial revolution these changes actually benefit everyone. It is not a 0 sum game.

What happened to Britain during that transition? They jumped out to an early lead and then sat on it and were completely passed by. A protectionist, anti immigrant, pull up the drawbridge attitude is simply going to allow China, Germany, Japan and the rest pass us by. Tariffs on solar is, imo, idiotic. Blaming immigrants when the real villains are the bankers and politicians, is criminal.

Britain got "passed by" because of the way they treated the Jews during WWII. They blockaded Israel preventing their return and safety of the Jews in Israel.

And Deep State referred to those in Gov't (DOJ, WH, FBI, NSA, CIA) who exonerated Clinton and Obama, and attempted to destroy the Trump presidency.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Britain got "passed by" because of the way they treated the Jews during WWII. They blockaded Israel preventing their return and safety of the Jews in Israel.

And Deep State referred to those in Gov't (DOJ, WH, FBI, NSA, CIA) who exonerated Clinton and Obama, and attempted to destroy the Trump presidency.

Britain was passed by economically long before WWII. By the time of Rockefeller and Carnegie we had already gone by them. Britain was the birthplace of the modern industrial revolution, they were the supreme super power at one point in time, but they were happy to stop innovating. Some historians described Imperialism as a process by which it didn't matter that Britain was no longer innovating.

I know what a "Deep State" is and I find the idea absurd and ridiculous. Not least in the fact that the "smoking gun text" was obviously a joke.

[zeek]

Republicans on a House panel voted to release a secret memo said to accuse the F.B.I. of misusing its authority in the Russia inquiry. They're circling the wagons by attacking the F.B.I. in a desperate move to save Trump. Looks like the train wreck that is Trump is about to hit the wall.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Republicans on a House panel voted to release a secret memo said to accuse the F.B.I. of misusing its authority in the Russia inquiry. They're circling the wagons by attacking the F.B.I. in a desperate move to save Trump. Looks like the train wreck that is Trump is about to hit the wall.

Yes, but they definitely expect him to take as many other crooks down with him. I am still fuming about the whole "too big to jail" attitude of our corrupt politicians.

Just so you know how anathema the whole situation was, the only bank that was prosecuted during the whole mortgage crisis was a tiny bank in Flushing, NY called Abacus. It was a family owned bank based very much on the model in "A wonderful life". He was helping poor immigrants uncomfortable with American banking to get a house, credit, etc.

Defending himself against the DA cost him $10 million. In the end the jury found him not guilty of a single charge (and there were thousands) and this was at a time when the American people wanted some bank, any bank, to pay.

One of the things in this banks favor was that they had one of the absolutely lowest default rates on mortgages in the country. It was an example of "don't let a good crisis go to waste". These corrupt bankers saw this as an opportunity to put banks like this out of business.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Republicans on a House panel voted to release a secret memo said to accuse the F.B.I. of misusing its authority in the Russia inquiry. They're circling the wagons by attacking the F.B.I. in a desperate move to save Trump. Looks like the train wreck that is Trump is about to hit the wall.

And Andrew McCabe was removed from office without overwhelming evidence of corruption after overseeing Hilary's sham investigation and subverting Trump's election??? Seriously??? According to the "insurance policy" coup plan hatched in his office, he was supposed to protect all his cronies after Hilary won. Lock him up without his cushy pension!

Strzok, who was at the center of both FBI episodes, and his lover Lisa Page will be indicted as his "thugs." Rod Rosenstein at DOJ will resign shortly. No. 4 guy at FBI Bruce Ohr and his wife Nelly are history, being the phony Trump Dossier guardians. The whole house of cards is coming down. Time will tell whether these fine folks will implicate Comey, Lynch, Hilary, and Obama. But let's leave Muller alone while he wastes taxpayer money.

But zeek and company are still screaming Russia, Russia, Russia. His "news" is a year old, or more, and rotting in the dumpster. He loves his democratic process until the "wrong" guy gets elected. His ends justify any and all criminal means. It's only a "witch hunt" when liberals are on the hot seat.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Britain was passed by economically long before WWII. By the time of Rockefeller and Carnegie we had already gone by them. Britain was the birthplace of the modern industrial revolution, they were the supreme super power at one point in time, but they were happy to stop innovating. Some historians described Imperialism as a process by which it didn't matter that Britain was no longer innovating.

Not exactly. Carnegie launched his empire using the Bessemer process developed in England. Carnegie built his empire using immigrant "slave" labor from Europe, long before unions. The US outpaced Britain due to natural resources.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I know what a "Deep State" is and I find the idea absurd and ridiculous. Not least in the fact that the "smoking gun text" was obviously a joke.

Time will tell. You are obviously still watching them Fake News Networks.

Where's the apology for accusing Trump of Russian collusion? That story has long died and is rotting in liberal dumpsters.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not exactly. Carnegie launched his empire using the Bessemer process developed in England. Carnegie built his empire using immigrant "slave" labor from Europe, long before unions. The US outpaced Britain due to natural resources.


Time will tell. You are obviously still watching them Fake News Networks.

Where's the apology for accusing Trump of Russian collusion? That story has long died and is rotting in liberal dumpsters.

Yes, the Bessemer process was invented in England but they didn't adopt it, because they didn't want to upgrade their equipment. One reason was that the labor party was powerful and every time you upgrade people lose jobs. So even though jobs were created by using the more efficient methods, some of the jobs protected by the unions would be eliminated.

Why should I apologize? All I said was I would wait for the investigation to be finished. That is what I am doing. That is the proper thing to do.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I know what a "Deep State" is and I find the idea absurd and ridiculous. Not least in the fact that the "smoking gun text" was obviously a joke.

Why should I apologize? All I said was I would wait for the investigation to be finished. That is what I am doing. That is the proper thing to do.

Oh OK, your other comments were just jokes. I must have missed that.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh OK, your other comments were just jokes. I must have missed that.

I have been consistent from day 1, I support the investigation for numerous reasons, I am content to wait until Mueller is finished. I do not presume guilt but I also feel that the evidence fully justifies the investigation.

Which is:

1. Flynn lied concerning his connections with Russia, he has admitted guilt and is now working with the prosecution and he is not the only campaign official working with Mueller.

2. The prosecution does not cut a deal with Flynn unless he can get them bigger fish.

3. Kushner met with the Russians, was not honest concerning the meeting, and the meeting has the appearance of working together with the Russians. Not proof of collusion, but Bannon said there was a 0% chance that the Russians were not walked up to Trump's office. He also had to walk back quotes of his that this meeting was "treasonous".

4. Trump publicly asked the Russians to release top secret emails from Clinton to the public. Again, not evidence of collusion but showing terrible judgement by someone running for office in the US and in and of itself enough to justify many people demanding an investigation.

5. Manafort had to resign due to his connections with Russia.

6. Sessions had to recuse himself due to his connections with Russia.

7. Trump fired Comey. Based on Comey's account this was due to the Russia investigation. Although this does not cross the line of obstruction of justice the meeting with Comey was not above reproach. Once again, justifying to many the investigation.

8. Trump asked to fire Mueller, which would constitute obstruction of justice. This fact alone demands we get a full and exhaustive investigation from Mueller.

9. Russia did interfere with our election for president. This one fact alone completely justifies a full and exhaustive investigation.

10. Russia's interference with the election aided Trump and there is circumstantial evidence of a quid pro quo, undo things Obama did in exchange for getting Trump elected. Circumstantial evidence is that they helped Trump get elected and Trump undid some penalties levied by Obama. There may also be hard evidence that this was discussed and agreed upon between Trump and high ranking Russian officials. I expect Mueller's investigation to determine that.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have been consistent from day 1, I support the investigation for numerous reasons, I am content to wait until Mueller is finished. I do not presume guilt but I also feel that the evidence fully justifies the investigation.

Which is:

1. Flynn lied concerning his connections with Russia, he has admitted guilt and is now working with the prosecution and he is not the only campaign official working with Mueller.

2. The prosecution does not cut a deal with Flynn unless he can get them bigger fish.

3. Kushner met with the Russians, was not honest concerning the meeting, and the meeting has the appearance of working together with the Russians. Not proof of collusion, but Bannon said there was a 0% chance that the Russians were not walked up to Trump's office. He also had to walk back quotes of his that this meeting was "treasonous".

4. Trump publicly asked the Russians to release top secret emails from Clinton to the public. Again, not evidence of collusion but showing terrible judgement by someone running for office in the US and in and of itself enough to justify many people demanding an investigation.

5. Manafort had to resign due to his connections with Russia.

6. Sessions had to recuse himself due to his connections with Russia.

7. Trump fired Comey. Based on Comey's account this was due to the Russia investigation. Although this does not cross the line of obstruction of justice the meeting with Comey was not above reproach. Once again, justifying to many the investigation.

8. Trump asked to fire Mueller, which would constitute obstruction of justice. This fact alone demands we get a full and exhaustive investigation from Mueller.

9. Russia did interfere with our election for president. This one fact alone completely justifies a full and exhaustive investigation.

10. Russia's interference with the election aided Trump and there is circumstantial evidence of a quid pro quo, undo things Obama did in exchange for getting Trump elected. Circumstantial evidence is that they helped Trump get elected and Trump undid some penalties levied by Obama. There may also be hard evidence that this was discussed and agreed upon between Trump and high ranking Russian officials. I expect Mueller's investigation to determine that.

It all sounds so serious, but even Peter Strzok the lead investigator said there was no "there there."

If Russia did interfere with our election for president, then we ought to investigate Russia.

There is to date no evidence that Russia's interference with the election aided Trump.

You are perpetrating year old folklore and media mythology. Sorry. I've been trying to tell you, but you're not listening.