Whistleblower

[Drake]

-1

HERn,

If challenging the allegation of rape when there was none straining at a gnat then guilty as charged.

I have made my view clear on what I think of PL and his actions. Do not pretend otherwise. But save the rape charge where it applies.

And you should love everything the Lord Jesus says not just selections that are convenient in the moment.

Thanks
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

If challenging the allegation of rape when there was none straining at a gnat then guilty as charged.

Drake please read this excerpt below again from Ingalls STTIL. We just don't know all the details. I wouldn't be so sure that any of the sisters did not feel they were "raped."

In the morning of December 19, just before Ken and I were to leave for Texas that afternoon, the sister from the LSM office who had spoken to me on September 30th (see page 10) called and asked to speak to Godfred and me. We met with her and were utterly amazed at what we heard. She began to relate to us in detail some of the things she suffered while in the service of the LSM office. She wanted us to realize how grave the problem was. We were revulsed to the depths of our being, and when the conversation ended and we parted, we so full of abhorrent feelings that we were literally in a daze. Godfred drove me to the airport to meet Ken. We were in a state of shock and utter disgust. All this had taken place in what we called the Lord’s recovery!

Sounds to me like the sisters at LSM were subjected to a little more than just a few of Philip's infamous vulgar tirades.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Drake

HERn, ...And you should love everything the Lord Jesus says not just selections that are convenient in the moment.

Very good advice brother Drake. I shall ask the Lord for grace to do just that.

Best,
HERn

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

HERn, If challenging the allegation of rape when there was none straining at a gnat then guilty as charged. I have made my view clear on what I think of PL and his actions. Do not pretend otherwise. But save the rape charge where it applies. And you should love everything the Lord Jesus says not just selections that are convenient in the moment.

Brother Drake, we are not playing verse wars here or games with scripture.

People got hurt! The children of God were stumbled by a ministry!

Should you not rather take sides with the stumbled "least of My brothers," than take sides with ministry officials who may have millstones around their necks?

Have not the lessons of the Bible and history taught you anything?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother Drake, we are not playing verse wars here or games with scripture.
People got hurt! The children of God were stumbled by a ministry!
Should you not rather take sides with the stumbled "least of My brothers," than take sides with ministry officials who may have millstones around their necks?
Have not the lessons of the Bible and history taught you anything?

Brother Ohio,

These are reasonable and worthy questions. Of course, people got hurt. Many were stumbled. Some in this forum. History is a valuable teacher. I am in tune. I get it.

However, there are significant collateral issues that you don’t see that I do. Not because I’m smarter and you’re dumber. I don’t believe that at all. Rather, it is vantage point. Some examples are:

1) You (the collective you), may have a legitimate objection but then you go too far. You cast off all restraint in your critique. Your passion runs amok. You feed on it and work into a frenzy. Soon the legitimate concern and objection has turned into slander of brothers and sisters without regard for their well being some potentially in danger of losing freedom or their very lives. A haughty spirit, a mocking spirit, dominates the discussions in tone and tenor. You have gone too far.

2) In that environment you (the collective you again) attack every thought that disagrees or presents a different point of view. There is no middle ground with you. Either I agree it is “RAPE” else I am defending the sleazy. Any objections on most topics will predictably and invariably lead to PL. How dare I believe the truth of the minister of the age, how ridiculous that I follow God’s anointing... why, don’t I understand that PL did those things right there in the ministry office? “Toss out the bath water, toss out the baby, and now toss out the bath tub, the bottles, and the cradle!” You have gone too far.

3) Yet, there is more runway.... you do not stop with attacking dissent you now attack the dissenter. It goes something like this: Drake is a dissenter, cast the die, he knows better so he must be purposely deceiving us. Drake willingly defends every evil we cite, every wrongdoing, every mistake. How dare he stumble little ones. We are crusaders for truth and Drake is trying to cover it up. Either that or he is delusional. We have our theories too, we have worked through them a thousand times, we know how things really are, so who does Evangelical think he is showing us alternative views with all those quotes from theologians and Christian ministers? He too, is up to no good. They are LSM plants or else they are violating LSM rules. If so, they are afraid of getting caught by LSM because they would be punished. That’s why they won’t tell us where they live. Again, you go too far but we know what we signed up for in coming to this forum so all is forgiven without solicitation.

4) Which brings us to the described evil of all evils in this forum. LSM. I have recently presented the New Testament scriptural basis for the work of ministry in another thread. I have also stated that the Living Stream Ministry in its function and execution fulfills that role for the local churches on the earth today. I understand you don’t see it that way. Yet, I have personally benefitted from it in that way and so have tens of thousands of brothers and sisters in the local churches. My church life experience is not dependent on the misdeeds of PL. I am not distraught over the failed motor home business. I am delighted that there are serving ones on the earth today who give their lives to put words of life into my hands, who are willing to get on a plane and spend a weekend, a week, a month, or a year, to fellowship our wonderful Christ, who carry on a ministry that will build up the Body of Christ and may contribute to bringing the Lord back in our lifetime. If this ministry does not inspire you that way then find one that does and let your hearts to be big enough to allow the brothers and sisters in the local churches to pursue the Spirit’s leading in their lives. Your criticisms, though perhaps sometimes valid, go too far. If there is a chance of stumbling little ones it rests on your shoulders for those little ones still in the Lords Recovery and those who may be seeking a path to return.

Finally, you might think.. what about the failings, the mistakes, the misdeeds, the bad judgments of Brother Lee, his sons, the coworkers, the elders, etc. ....shouldn’t we broadcast and shout them from the rooftops? You’ve done that for over a decade and if you have done that under the direct guidance of the Holy Spirit then you will receive a great reward according to your works. Yet, if your many words and works are not under the direct leading of the Holy Spirit, you will not receive a reward, rather the One Who judges righteously will settle matter in that day. It is a fact, not a threat, and when brought into our understanding the BEMA of Christ will keep us from going too far.

As for me, I do not deny that there were many mistakes, misdeeds, faults, sins, etc. that have happened in the Lords Recovery. However, all the failures and shortcomings, were a test to the vision the Lord gave me. I do not follow a man, I follow the anointing. Perhaps, by sharing my experience I may supply just one little one, former or current member, to rebound from a stumble or prevent a stumble. I don’t know, the Lord knows.

Drake

[Ohio]

So much drama, Drake. You remind me of Nancy Pelosi screaming "Armageddon!" every time the Republicans make news.

Drake, you may claim that you "do not follow a man, I follow the anointing," yet the "kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit," and your "righteousness must surpass the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees," or I doubt if your anointing is the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

It's kind of humorous coming from an LSMer that "my critique casts off all restraint." WL and the Blendeds have made it their calling to continually condemn the entire body of Christ. They have an entire publication A&C that critiques all things Christian. You may be disturbed by my posts here, but let me guarantee you that they are merely a drop in the bucket of your endless ministry of condemnation on all of Christianity. It is truly amazing that you have mistaken the haughty spirit and a mocking spirit in your trainings for the anointing.

What you call "the failings, the mistakes, the misdeeds, the bad judgments of Brother Lee, his sons, the coworkers, the elders, etc." I would call a dastardly plot to smear, discredit, slander, and destroy numerous men of God whose only "crimes" were to protect the innocent children of God and speak their conscience on behalf of righteousness. Actually I would say that you are being quite deceptive here by characterizing these actions as mere "failings, mistakes, misdeeds, and bad judgments." And you have been doing this for 30 years, all the while condemning others for bringing up the subject.

So let me get this straight. According to your "standards," when anyone addresses past criminal or salacious activities at LSM, they will be judged by the Lord, but employees of LSM will always get a free pass for their "mistakes" since they are on the "proper graound."

Oh those poor writers of the Bible! How dare they have recorded all of those "failings, mistakes, misdeeds, and bad judgments" of the Patriarchs, Judges, Kings, Prophets, Apostles, etc.

[Drake]

-1

Ohio>”So let me get this straight. According to your "standards," when anyone addresses past criminal or salacious activities at LSM, they will be judged by the Lord, but employees of LSM will always get a free pass for their "mistakes" since they are on the "proper graound."

Ohio, nothing I said remotely suggests that so you did not get that straight.

However, it is one thing to cite the facts of a situation and quite another to render judgment in that citation. More often than not, your citation ibecomes a reviling accusation against members of the local churches, elders, coworkers, and God’s servants. Will your reviling accusation bring the Lord’s smile and “Well done good and faithful servant”? I don’t think so. Yet, it is not up to me so time will tell.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Finally, you might think.. what about the failings, the mistakes, the misdeeds, the bad judgments of Brother Lee, his sons, the coworkers, the elders, etc. ....shouldn’t we broadcast and shout them from the rooftops? You’ve done that for over a decade and if you have done that under the direct guidance of the Holy Spirit then you will receive a great reward according to your works. Yet, if your many words and works are not under the direct leading of the Holy Spirit, you will not receive a reward, rather the One Who judges righteously will settle matter in that day. It is a fact, not a threat, and when brought into our understanding the BEMA of Christ will keep us from going too far.

As for me, I do not deny that there were many mistakes, misdeeds, faults, sins, etc. that have happened in the Lords Recovery. However, all the failures and shortcomings, were a test to the vision the Lord gave me. I do not follow a man, I follow the anointing. Perhaps, by sharing my experience I may supply just one little one, former or current member, to rebound from a stumble or prevent a stumble. I don’t know, the Lord knows.

Drake

"Over a decade?" ... Hmmm ... but Drake you've only been here a year ... unless of course you are the "reincarnation" of another famous LSMer on this forum.

"A test to your vision?" ... Hmmm ... but Drake why don't you allow any other believers in the body of Christ the same liberties? Why is only your "Recovery" permitted to overlook mistakes, misdeeds, faults, sins, crimes, and unrighteousness? All in the name of some "vision."

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Over a decade?" ... Hmmm ... but Drake you've only been here a year ... unless of course you are the "reincarnation" of another famous LSMer on this forum.

"A test to your vision?" ... Hmmm ... but Drake why don't you allow any other believers in the body of Christ the same liberties? Why is only your "Recovery" permitted to overlook mistakes, misdeeds, faults, sins, crimes, and unrighteousness? All in the name of some "vision."

But Ohio.... I am not sure what you mean entirely. No man is without fault save One. And I do not advocate overlooking a failure because from them we may learn and be tested. I said citing the facts is one thing but reviling accusations are quite another. I said you may have a legitimate objection but then in adding in judgment you yourself go too far resulting in reviling accusations. That is not overlooking. With you this has been going on for a decade, based on your join date.

Drake

[Nell]

More...

Complete post here:
http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vB...6&postcount=43

[QUOTE=BlueOrchid;69295]
Hi NeverfreefromLC,
{Virtual hug <3}
I'm so sorry you went through that.

Yes I agree. I went through a similar experience and the guilt and shame was the most intense feeling and such a depressing burden. For me it was a member of the LC as well. I mentally checked out. It didn't make sense to see this person worshipping at the table meeting, while my young young self was thinking how does he get away with it while I have to keep it a secret and try to be normal? It was exhausting to keep that secret.

I didn't feel good enough for a brother in the church life. I now know that it wasn't my shame or guilt, it was the accuser. and I know that satan tries to get a foot hold into our lives from trauma we experience. It's so deeply rooted in us at a young age, but lies are nothing compared to the truth!

I keep hearing stories of sexual abuse covered up in the church... it's always going to be a thing because satan wants to steal kill and destroy. I just wish there was more love and care for those who had been through things. But they won't in an environment where the truth of many other issues has been stifled for decades. I could never understand it, but from all the testimonies on this forum, so many things make sense!
...

Nell

[Steel]

"As for me, I do not deny that there were many mistakes, misdeeds, faults, sins, etc. that have happened in the Lords Recovery. However, all the failures and shortcomings, were a test to the vision the Lord gave me. I do not follow a man, I follow the anointing. Perhaps, by sharing my experience I may supply just one little one, former or current member, to rebound from a stumble or prevent a stumble. I don’t know, the Lord knows." — Drake

Cool... I have the same sense.