"That They May Be One, Even As We Are One" - by TAS

[kisstheson]

Originally Posted by awareness

Ga 5:22-23 : But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Recovery back to the early church is not it. Recovery back to Jesus is.

Amen, dear brother awareness. Recovery back to Jesus is it! Christlikeness is the fruit of the Spirit. This is our wonderful reality and our glorious destiny as believers in Christ!

Getting back to Jesus Christ is the most basic and fundamental matter. This is where God begins and this is where God carries out His work. In Chirst! In Christ! Always in Christ!

Your post is actually an excellent segue right into Message Nine. As TAS points out, our beginning is in Christ, our progress is in Christ, our work and our service is in Christ. If we go beyond Christ, God will bring us back to Christ.

As TAS said in Message Nine,

"Let me just re-emphasize this: with God everything begins with a revelation of His Son. If we go beyond that, God will bring us back to it. That is true in the matter of Salvation. There is no true beginning of the Christian life without a seeing of Jesus Christ as God's Son. And that is true of all the progress of the Christian life. God keeps all our spiritual progress true to the revelation of Jesus Christ. And that is true of all the work of God. All the true work of God has got to be done by our seeing the Lord Jesus . . .
We ought never to do anything in the work of God, unless we get it from the Lord . . .
The Spirit of God was saying, is this thing of Christ? Is it an expression of Christ? It is not what you think about this work of God. Not your ideas and your judgments, not how you do things in the world. It is, Has it come from Heaven by the Spirit of God? Have you waited on God to get it from Him? That is how it has always been in the beginning. That is how it was in the beginning of THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES."

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, those who have been shown mercy,

While reading through these messages by TAS in the book “That They May All Be One, Even As We Are One”, I am struck with the fact that when TAS does present an objective doctrine, it always sounds very familiar to those of us who were in the LSM-LC. Those still in the LSM-LC who read TAS’s books would be surprised to see how "safe" TAS’s books are, even for those who are LSM-only.

As an example of this, I present a portion of TAS’s speaking in Message Nine. TAS had been speaking about how all our service in the work of God has to be through the Spirit of God. At the end of this portion of his speaking, TAS spoke regarding the difference between being born of the Spirit and being anointed by the Spirit. This should sound very familiar to LCer’s and former LCer’s.

“There is a difference between being born of the Spirit, and being anointed by the Spirit. To be born of the Spirit is to be brought into the new life, to be made a child of God, to enter into the Kingdom. But the anointing has to do with the work of God. We need anointing for the work of God. These two men, Bezaleel and Aholiab, were anointed. It says, "filled with the Spirit unto all manner of workmanship" (Exodus 31:1-6).”

[kisstheson]

Dear ones, people of God,

I am also struck with the wonderful way TAS expounds the typology found in the Old Testament. I appreciate how TAS brings out the depths of the typology, and how he always relates it to practical experiences in spirit and in reality. Even more, I appreciate that TAS never pushes the typology too far, and never applies the typology in a self-serving way.

In Message Nine, there is much rich speaking regarding the typology of the OT tabernacle. Notice that TAS is still giving great emphasis to this matter of inward, spiritual, understanding:

“To return to the tabernacle, we will use it as an illustration for a little while. The inclusive fact about the tabernacle is that it was not a thing. It was not a thing at all. It was a Divine meaning. That meaning was covered. If other people, which were not of Israel, came and looked at that tabernacle, they would have said, 'Well, that is a funny thing, what sort of a thing is that?' But the truth was inside. The truth was a mystery, and it required the opened eye of the heart to see the truth in that.

John, many years after the life of the Lord Jesus, said: "He became flesh, and Tabernacled among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." He was only saying, in other words, 'We saw inside of Him. We saw the Divine meaning in Him.'

Now when Jesus was here on this earth, He was the very Tabernacle of God. He was the very Dwelling Place of God in this world. But what did men see? Well, Isaiah said, "And when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected of men" (Isa. 53:2,3). Just as the stranger would have said about the tabernacle, 'There is no beauty in that. It is all covered over with these skins. We see no beauty in that.' They would have despised and rejected it. But John said, "We beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father" (John 1:14). John had the inward revelation of Jesus Christ.”

[countmeworthy]

You HAD to get me going didn't ya KTS !

You know what men saw, including his disciples? They saw the POWER, the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit on Jesus. They were not affected by HIS PRESENCE. The disciples went everywhere with Jesus but being in His Presence did not change them...until the day of Pentecost when the anointing, the Power of God fell on them. THEN as the Holy Spirit filled them with the PRESENCE of GOD did they change and were empowered with the Word of God.

See, everyone saw Jesus healing the sick, and even raising the dead. He turned water into wine. He fed the thousands with 2 loaves and 5 or was it 7 fish?? He taught the Word of God to the multitudes and most knew Jesus was a Prophet, the Sent One and the Messiah. They saw HIS POWER.

I do believe some of the women however were changed because the Love of Jesus on them affected them. The women that come to mind are the woman at the well (probably one of the many Mary's and Mary of Magdeline who I believe was going to be stoned and also the Mary who broke the alabaster box and anointed the feet of Jesus.)

But them boys who were with the Lord day & night......did not change until the Holy Spirit came upon them & filled their spirits on Pentecost. Proof you want? How many times did Peter annoy Jesus? And as much as Peter loved Jesus, he denied Him. They were in 'His Presence' but were not yet re-generated. They did not have the Life of God taking residence inside them.
Same thing happened with the children of Israel. Moses KNEW God's ways for he basqued in HIS PRESENCE. Moses had communion with God. He talked with Him, got to KNOW HIM. The children of Israel did not have a personal relationship with God. They only knew God's power. They saw how God set them free from Pharoe's choke hold. How God parted the Red sea, how God gave them a cloud by day and fire by night to keep warm..the manna...and yet while Moses was communing with GOD, they built an idol with the gold given to them by Pharoe. They even wanted to go back to Egypt after all God had done for them.

To sum it all up. The Presence of God and the Anointing go hand in hand.

[kisstheson]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

You HAD to get me going didn't ya KTS !

You know what men saw, including his disciples? They saw the POWER, the ANOINTING of the Holy Spirit on Jesus. They were not affected by HIS PRESENCE. The disciples went everywhere with Jesus but being in His Presence did not change them...until the day of Pentecost when the anointing, the Power of God fell on them. THEN as the Holy Spirit filled them with the PRESENCE of GOD did they change and were empowered with the Word of God.

See, everyone saw Jesus healing the sick, and even raising the dead. He turned water into wine. He fed the thousands with 2 loaves and 5 or was it 7 fish?? He taught the Word of God to the multitudes and most knew Jesus was a Prophet, the Sent One and the Messiah. They saw HIS POWER.

To sum it all up. The Presence of God and the Anointing go hand in hand.

Amen, dear sister countmeworthy, Amen and Amen!! I am actually rejoicing in the Lord that my previous posts got you going! What riches you shared with all of us! Hallelujah!

I appreciate what you shared: "God's Presence and God's anointing is not the same. God's Presence is God's Glory and it changes our heart. It changes our life . . . God's anointing is the Power of God. It is the manifestation of God's Presence. Acts 1:8 explains this. After (the Presence of) the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you receive Power (the Anointing)."

Both you and TAS share from the same point of view: the two wonderful experiences of the Spirit of God which are unveiled in the Scriptures. The Scriptures clearly unveil the wonderful experience of having the life of God within us, changing our hearts and our lives. The Scriptures also clearly unveil the wonderful experience of the Power, the Anointing, coming upon us for prevailing service to God. I do prefer the presenting of these truths from the point of view of our experiences as unveiled in the Scriptues compared to the LSM way of presenting "two aspects of the Spirit - essential and economical". I am not saying that the LSM way is wrong, just that I prefer sticking to the Scriptural expressions.

There is one futher matter which I find most interesting: Whenever I share with another believer some insights into God's Word which I have received from reading TAS's books, we always end up talking about verses in the Bible and about our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ. We never end up talking about how great TAS was. Even though the conversation starts with an insight gained from TAS, TAS quickly fades into the background and our focus becomes the written Word of God and our dear Lord Jesus Christ, the living Word of God! The fact that TAS always points us to Christ, and not to himself, is really, in the final analysis, the highest compliment which can be paid to TAS's ministry.

[countmeworthy]

KTS and all,
Thank you for letting me share. What you wrote about TAS is what makes him and others like him
an EXCELLENT Teacher of the Word of God.
You wrote:

There is one futher matter which I find most interesting: Whenever I share with another believer some insights into God's Word which I have received from reading TAS's books, we always end up talking about verses in the Bible and about our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ. We never end up talking about how great TAS was. Even though the conversation starts with an insight gained from TAS, TAS quickly fades into the background and our focus becomes the written Word of God and our dear Lord Jesus Christ, the living Word of God! The fact that TAS always points us to Christ, and not to himself, is really, in the final analysis, the highest compliment which can be paid to TAS's ministry.

Amen.
When we sit under an anointed teacher, and our thoughts, our passion, our life is consumed with getting to KNOW GOD through HIS WORD, we know we are in good hands. Grant it, the HOLY SPIRIT is the MOST EXCELLENT TEACHER and it is HE Who reveals the WORD of GOD to us. It is the Holy Spirit Himself who points us to JESUS and it is through JESUS that we have fellowship with the Father.
But when we think MORE about the human being who taught us or is teaching us the Word of God and rely soley on him to teach us and NOT the Holy Spirit, the presence of God will depart and the Holy Spirit will be taken away from us. For the sake of this forum, many people put their trust in Brother Lee. Brother Lee 'knew' the Word "like no one else". They became like the cripple who sat by the pool who waited and waited for someone to push him into it where he knew once in the water, he would be healed. (John 5:4-8) But this happens in other circles of the Christian community too.

David wrote in
Psalm 51:11

Cast me not away from Thy Presence; and take not Thy HOLY SPIRIT from me

David KNEW the LORD. He spent time in HIS PRESENCE. He put His Trust in the Holy Spirit. David also knew his horrible weakness which is why he prayed in vs 10 for the LORD to create in him a CLEAN heart and renew a right spirit within him. He KNEW he was forgiven of all his transgressions and that his sin was covered (Psalm 32:1) but this spirit of lust followed him everywhere he went imho. For why else would David want the Lord to create in him a CLEAN HEART ?? I think that is the only way David would be set free from desiring women ! If GOD would remove his fleshly sinful heart and replace it with a Clean (sanctified) heart, his heart, his eyes would look upon ONLY the LORD.

Something else I've learned.....It is WONDERFUL to be in HIS PRESENCE, to be ANOINTED, to be under the Anointing......but as I wrote earlier, it comes with a PRICE. The way any of us really get to KNOW GOD is to be TESTED. We are ALL tested !! And often times we think GOD is requiring something heavy duty from us. When all he wants is our decision to obey and NOT to wallow in our sorrows, pleading and begging for 'mercy'. I KNOW. I've been there..done that ! I too have walked and wallowed in the valley of the shadow of death! I have also experienced the LORD, KING MELCHIZEDEC set a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. I've gotten better in obeying. Saves me a whole lot of GRIEF !

Remember Abraham?
After all them years of waiting on God's promise to bless him and Sarah with an heir, Isaac is finally born. GOD was FAITHFUL to HIS WORD. He kept HIS Word. 13 or so years later, God tells Abraham to give Him back Isaac. We don't read anywhere that Abraham argued, screamed and got in the LORD'S Face throwing His Word back at Him. Abraham could have said something like "YOU are going back on YOUR WORD, Lord".

He didn't. I am sure Abraham obeyed with a sorrowful heart that he was going to kill his son at the request of God.
But Abraham passed the test to surrender Isaac and obey God. Thus God spared Isaac.

Tests like this one happens to all of us. I've been giving these tests. I'm learning faster now...to shut up and OBEY ! I've been around the mountain one too many times ! I've also learned the more I obey, the more Understanding and Wisdom I am blessed with. The veil from my eyes is removed. I can see clearer.

That said, I am very, very leary of people putting any person up on a pedestal. Yes, God does give us spiritual mentors or spiritual fathers and mothers. I have had several. I have a few right now. BUT it is the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF who is using them to take me to the wells of water digging deep until out comes a well of springing Water..the Water of Life. I have never hungered and thirsted for the Word of GOD in my life like I do now. I do not know if it is because we are soo close to the Lord's return that I am basquing in His Presence where there is fullnes of Joy even in the midst of the storm. Oh.. one more thing: Digging is hard work !! But the REWARD that comes from it is exceedingly worth it !

[awareness]

CountMeWorthy:
I think that is the only way David would be set free from desiring women !

Since David loved Jonathan more than women, even kissing him, wasn't it Jonathan that freed David from desiring women? Saul sure thought something perverse was going on between them.

David and Jonathan is proof that God doesn't condemn same sex attraction as much as Christians do today.

But that was just one of many sins God forgave David for. Proving, perhaps, that the cross was effective even back then.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by kisstheson

Dear ones, those who have been shown mercy,

While reading through these messages by TAS in the book “That They May All Be One, Even As We Are One”, I am struck with the fact that when TAS does present an objective doctrine, ....As an example of this, I present a portion of TAS’s speaking in Message Nine. TAS had been speaking about how all our service in the work of God has to be through the Spirit of God. At the end of this portion of his speaking, TAS spoke regarding the difference between being born of the Spirit and being anointed by the Spirit.This should sound very familiar to LCer’s and former LCer’s.

Indeed there is a difference between being born of the Spirit and being anointed by the Spirit.

1)Salvation is a free gift.

2)But the Anointing comes with a price: surrender and obedience.

In other words we must crucify the flesh and die to self.
This might hit a nerve on former LCrs because imho, the way we were taught Galations 2:20 was so WARPED !! Someone can correct me if I'm wrong for I was only there a short time compared to most here. But based on the countless of 'testimonies', I don't think I'm off base.

The outward unspoken dresscode, the manner of speaking, the manner of praying corporately is NOT what Paul meant when he wrote "I am crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who lives but Christ who lives in me."

That whole LC/LSM mentality screwed up soo many precious saints who were and are hungry to KNOW GOD, to have a deep, genuine relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. IMHO, before we can have a healthy manifestation of the Body of Christ, each individual must have a deep, personal relationship with the LORD. We need to get to KNOW HIM intimately. THEN as the Holy Spirit enlightens us, we are able to build up and edify the Body of Christ.

God's Presence and God's anointing is not the same.
God's Presence is God's Glory and it changes our heart. It changes our life.
(example: MOSES was in God's Presence. Moses got to KNOW God when he communed with Him for 40 days and nights on the mountain top. The Glory of God was all over him when he came down. It just about blinded everyone below!)

God's anointing is the Power of God. It is the manifestation of God's Presence. Acts 1:8 explains this. After (the Presence of) the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you receive Power (the Anointing).

This is why the gospel sometimes moves and convicts people. A person who has been spending lots of time in prayer, praising and worshipping the LORD with Thanksgiving, studying the Word of God can stop a person 'dead' in his/her tracks. Yet other times, the gospel falls flat on the floor.

Example: 2 weeks ago, my best friend who got saved a couple of yrs ago and has been sharing the gospel to her unbelieving husband were watching an NFL awards ceremony. (something like that)... she didn't want to watch it but to keep the peace with her husband, she hung out with him. Now this show was about acknowledging the professionals and giving a bio of their lives, and who influenced them to get to where they are today.

It was a typical secular rags to riches story for most of them. About half way through the show, they now give the bio on the NFL player from Pittsburg who is sitting on the stage quietly while his bio is presented. They gave rave reports about what an awesome person he is off the field & on the field. Not one word was mentioned about his faith or lack of it. Not one word was mentioned about God..or whether God was instrumental in his life or not.

When they introduced him and he got up to speak. He said "The Person I want to thank for who I am is THE LORD JESUS CHRIST." My friend said everyone including she & HER HUSBAND FROZE when the NFLr spoke this. She told me they were stunned & No one could say anything. My friend's husband began to weep...(although he still did not surrender his life to the LORD.)

Now....let me explain what I believe happened. This NFL player while sitting on stage had to have been in deep communion with the Lord. He was in His Presence. He probably did not hear a word of what was being said about him. When he got up to speak, the POWER, the ANOINTING came upon him. The anointing of the Holy Spirit was released on him.

How do I know ? The fruit. Everyone froze in the Presence of ALMIGHTY GOD. My friend's unbelieving husband who is oppressed by the demons of alcoholism and porn WEPT !

Another observation to consider. This celebrity is not the first person to every acknowledge and thank God or the Lord Jesus on stage! But he surely had the anointing, the power of God to move people while most have not.

And I will stop here.