Whistleblower

[OhLordJesus]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

Just a helpful suggestion, you can go back and see all members comments on this site. I noticed you were asking this to a specific person and I did the same thing when I first got on here! Trying to sort it all out and see who is who is really overwhelming. It's good to have some comradory and trust with certain people but you have to consider the source. Some people on here are intentionally frustrating, avoid answering logical questions, and talk in circles- avoiding the true points of discussion. Of course, it's good to get both sides of the story but I would suggest considering the source and the amount of evidence both sides have to offer.

I'm glad the others recommended "Speaking the Truth in Love," I was going to suggest that. It really helped me. Even then, you'll have to dig a little deeper because John Ingalls refrains from mentioning the specific details of the grave offenses by Philip Lee. He also (and someone please offer an explanation to why if you know!) doesn't mention that the "brother" being excommunicated that the elders were undecided about- was PL.

He mentions the "grave offenses" by PL, but he's very careful not to go into the details. Obviously, we know they were serious in nature due to the fact that excommunication was on the table....

I'm just saying this to encourage you to read ALL the accounts, testimonies, and personal experiences that so many people have to offer before making a judgement. It's been a hard thing for me to do and I'm still coming to terms with the idea that the local church isn't what I thought it was.

Just be careful (and I'm telling myself this too) of who you go to to get the "truth" on here. The truth is somewhere in the middle of these two sides everyone is on, I'm sure. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life- that's all we really know.

I think it's really easy to get caught up in all the "bad things" that happened in the church. Obviously, where there's smoke- there is fire. But that was in the past and there's never going to be a clear answer, just speculation....

For me, I had to look at what Christian scholars and psychology recommends in terms of healthy/unhealthy spiritual boundaries, abuse, and best/worst practices in Christian movements. Once I did that- it was very clear. The local church is a breeding ground for spiritual abuse, manipulation, mind control, and exploits genuine believers mentally and financially. I'm not saying that was ever the intention, but sin has turned it into that. The people that are in are involved in cult mindsets/practices that have weaved their way into Christian circles. They associate their experience with the Lord with the local church and can't separate the two, all while under the influence of group think and mind narrowing thought reform techniques.

There's a lot of info about it on here, and elsewhere. Everything good I read on it doesn't even mention the LC, just helps you identify bad practices and abuse. I would definitely recommend looking into that.

Peace and love

My mind is always very clear since day 1 I attended LC. I remain neutral until I can see official report to the Authority for illegal activities otherwise the cover up stuffs which some of you discussed here could be just a group of responsible ones handled issues incompetently.

I read some of threads and I knew who is for and who is against LC in this forum. The question is those who support LC, what are their motives of staying here?

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by OhLordJesus

My mind is always very clear since day 1 I attended LC. I remain neutral until I can see official report to the Authority for illegal activities otherwise the cover up stuffs which some of you discussed here could be just a group of responsible ones handled issues incompetently.

I read some of threads and I knew who is for and who is against LC in this forum. The question is those who support LC, what are their motives of staying here?

Gotcha, I wasn’t trying to imply your mind or intentions weren’t in the right place. I’m relatively new on here and am coming from a place of seeing both sides, being in the LC most of my life.

I know John Ingalls account was recommended- that’s a good one. Also, if “evidence” is what you’re looking for, I would start with the recording of WL and Sal Benoit (just google those two names and it should come up).

There’s also a diagram of the Daystar “set up” that explains the conversation. Lmk if u can’t find from a google search and I’ll get u the links!

As far as I know, it didn’t get reported to the authorities and everyone involved (including those just following Bro. Lee’s orders) weren’t found out by law enforcement, and luckily for them- the statute of limitations has passed. Of course, that doesn’t mean they weren’t put in a really compromising and unethical position in the first place. The recording between WL and Sal Benoit might be the best thing (at least that I’ve seen) to hear WL admitting to using church funds to “Loan” to his business, which apparently is illegal given it’s a non profit corporation lending money to an overseas unincorporated “for profit” group. Someone else will have to explain the legalities of it but common sense says- don’t use church funds for your personal business, loan or not! Not to mention him asking saints to invest- it’s all there...

As far as the ones here for the local churches, I’ve wondered their motives too. It seems with all the info, the bubble would have burst by now. Everyone is different though and has their own way of dealing with things...

[OhLordJesus]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

Gotcha, I wasn’t trying to imply your mind or intentions weren’t in the right place. I’m relatively new on here and am coming from a place of seeing both sides, being in the LC most of my life.

I know John Ingalls account was recommended- that’s a good one. Also, if “evidence” is what you’re looking for, I would start with the recording of WL and Sal Benoit (just google those two names and it should come up).

There’s also a diagram of the Daystar “set up” that explains the conversation. Lmk if u can’t find from a google search and I’ll get u the links!

As far as I know, it didn’t get reported to the authorities and everyone involved (including those just following Bro. Lee’s orders) weren’t found out by law enforcement, and luckily for them- the statute of limitations has passed. Of course, that doesn’t mean they weren’t put in a really compromising and unethical position in the first place. The recording between WL and Sal Benoit might be the best thing (at least that I’ve seen) to hear WL admitting to using church funds to “Loan” to his business, which apparently is illegal given it’s a non profit corporation lending money to an overseas unincorporated “for profit” group. Someone else will have to explain the legalities of it but common sense says- don’t use church funds for your personal business, loan or not! Not to mention him asking saints to invest- it’s all there...

As far as the ones here for the local churches, I’ve wondered their motives too. It seems with all the info, the bubble would have burst by now. Everyone is different though and has their own way of dealing with things...

Thanks Kumbaya, I read the Speaking the Truth in Love and I've listened to the recording of WL and Sal. It is quite a serious matter to use the fund in non-profit organization for businesses. It must be reported.