Paul, An Apostle of Christ movie take away

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Denomination or no denomination, close or far away, those born of God are all connected through his spirit.

More important than hearing of the Holy Spirit is receiving the Holy Spirit.

That doesn't mean much in practice unless there is a way for those believers to meet and coordinate together in a practical way. For example, in the early church the gospel spread by the local churches sending out evangelists with their blessing and supporting the gospel ministry by receiving new disciples and caring for them. The evangelists would then report back to the local churches about the work which had been done.

The gospel did not spread by individuals writing letters to each other about how connected they are in the Spirit and never meeting and coordinating together.

Originally Posted by Jo S

If you also include the words "in the" in bold letters, you get something much different;

1 Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment

We are to join together "in the same mind and judgment", nowhere in scripture does it say we are all to join "in the same building within in the same city". There may be a time when this will become more of a reality but until then it's only really an ideal that works to isolate believers. Isolation is a form of division.

Denominations are the result of different Christians not having the same mind and judgement. For example, baptists have the opinion that baptism by full immersion is necessary. That's why they are baptists and not presbyterians.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Denominations are the result of different Christians not having the same mind and judgement. For example, baptists have the opinion that baptism by full immersion is necessary. That's why they are baptists and not presbyterians.

And you believe all Christians must read only Lee's books.

Tell me who is more divisive? Tell me whose "mind and judgment" needs some improvement?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And you believe all Christians must read only Lee's books.

Tell me who is more divisive? Tell me whose "mind and judgment" needs some improvement?

It's a simple fact that 1000 Christians in one church reading different Bible versions, and different devotionals and books at home, will not all have the same mind and judgement. The breadth of their opinion might resemble the wide variety of pickings available from local Christian bookstores, anything from Catholic to more New Age and everything in between.

For example, on the topic of is Lucifer the name of Satan.. those who read the American Standard Version which omits the name Lucifer, will probably disagree with those who read other versions.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It's a simple fact that 1000 Christians in one church reading different Bible versions, and different devotionals and books at home, will not all have the same mind and judgement. The breadth of their opinion might resemble the wide variety of pickings available from local Christian bookstores, anything from Catholic to more New Age and everything in between.

For example, on the topic of is Lucifer the name of Satan.. those who read the American Standard Version which omits the name Lucifer, will probably disagree with those who read other versions.

It is not a "simple fact!"

Our oneness is of the Spirit. It is not one ministry, one book, or one bible version that will make us all "one." LSM has proven that repeatedly -- we had all that, and they still found a way to cut off the Midwest LC's and Brazil. In the last go round, they cut off half SoCal, Europe, and Africa.

Do you really think that if all Christians used the same name for Satan, we would then all be one?

Perhaps you might want to reconsider the oneness of the Spirit based on the scripture. Pick any version you like.

[Jo S]

Just curious, if you guys were to liken the LC to a church in Revelation which one would it be?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Just curious, if you guys were to liken the LC to a church in Revelation which one would it be?

W. Lee said it best -- he often told us that we had become Laodicea.

Problem is -- he never took any responsibility -- rather he blamed the LC's for what his ministry did.

[UntoHim]

Hi Jo S,
Thank you so much for all your valuable contribution to our little forum.

My answer to your question would be that the Local Church(es) of Witness Lee are probably like the vast majority of Christian denominations/sects/movements - There is a little of all those 7 churches in the LCM. And just like in other movements, different aspects of those 7 churches may describe the condition of the movement at different points in time.

I might be in the minority, but I do not feel as strong as others that these seven churches strictly represent 7 historical eras of the Church. As I noted above, all of the different aspects, both negative and positive, could be applied to the Christian church at large (aka the visible Body of Christ) in different world regions and at different times in history. Also, the various aspects of these 7 first century churches could be applied to any particular denomination/sect/movement at any particular stage of their existence.

Sorry, very long answer to a real simple question!
-

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Hi Jo S,
Thank you so much for all your valuable contribution to our little forum.

My answer to your question would be that the Local Church(es) of Witness Lee are probably like the vast majority of Christian denominations/sects/movements - There is a little of all those 7 churches in the LCM. And just like in other movements, different aspects of those 7 churches may describe the condition of the movement at different points in time.

I might be in the minority, but I do not feel as strong as others that these seven churches strictly represent 7 historical eras of the Church. As I noted above, all of the different aspects, both negative and positive, could be applied to the Christian church at large (aka the visible Body of Christ) in different world regions and at different times in history. Also, the various aspects of these 7 first century churches could be applied to any particular denomination/sect/movement at any particular stage of their existence.

Sorry, very long answer to a real simple question!
-

Thanks. It might be a little forum but has the potential to make a big impact in someone's life.

I agree with what you said and I suspect the same was most likely true for the early churches as well.

I suppose if I were to rephrase I'd ask; what church of Revelation would you predominantly liken the LC's to in your opinion?

Also you say "the local churches of Witness Lee". Would you also consider Chu's offshoot part of Lee's LC's?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is not a "simple fact!"

Our oneness is of the Spirit. It is not one ministry, one book, or one bible version that will make us all "one." LSM has proven that repeatedly -- we had all that, and they still found a way to cut off the Midwest LC's and Brazil. In the last go round, they cut off half SoCal, Europe, and Africa.

Do you really think that if all Christians used the same name for Satan, we would then all be one?

Perhaps you might want to reconsider the oneness of the Spirit based on the scripture. Pick any version you like.

You speak of oneness of the Spirit like an airy fairy concept. No practical examples to support it.

What does oneness of the Spirit look like according to your concept?

For a city of 100,000 people for example, it must look like churches of two or three (the base number of a church, according to many), or up to 33000 different denominations. What a wonderful picture and testimony of oneness.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You speak of oneness of the Spirit like an airy fairy concept. No practical examples to support it.

What does oneness of the Spirit look like according to your concept?

Maybe similar to when local churchers "get life" when they do something? Like,"My subjectivity is okay; yours is not"?

Oneness in the LC is a moving target. Just when you think you have it they yank it further away.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You speak of oneness of the Spirit like an airy fairy concept. No practical examples to support it.

What does oneness of the Spirit look like according to your concept?

For a city of 100,000 people for example, it must look like churches of two or three (the base number of a church, according to many), or up to 33000 different denominations. What a wonderful picture and testimony of oneness.

No. My view of oneness is spiritual.

And I gave you a few counter-examples of what oneness -- LSM style -- is not.

And 33,000 gatherings all reading Witness Lee HWFMR is much closer to communism or catholicism than it is to the real oneness of the Spirit.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No. My view of oneness is spiritual.

And I gave you a few counter-examples of what oneness -- LSM style -- is not.

And 33,000 gatherings all reading Witness Lee HWFMR is much closer to communism or catholicism than it is to the real oneness of the Spirit.

To me, denominational oneness is like attending a family gathering where you're forced to play nice with uncles and 5th cousins you haven't seen for 20 years and everyone remembers in the back of their mind the one big argument of past history that caused the family to decide never to meet regularly again (like the Reformation).