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[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Indirectly yes. Without Trumps aggression NK would not have moved so quickly and recklessly. It was in direct response to Trump rhetoric.

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

Always? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

Always? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Yes, always...or often.

Please point to a time when Koreans, north or south, were ever a direct military threat to the continent of America itself. The aggressor is always the one with the army where it doesn't belong. 1871, America invaded Korea, try to take it by force. Can't take no for an answer. That's the fact. Korea would be one country today if 1871 did not happen.

WW1 or Nazi Germany's army never belonged in Poland or France.
American's army never belonged in Korea.
They never belonged in Vietnam either.

It's very easy to tell who is the aggressor when we consider where someones army doesn't belong. The concept is very easy to understand, I don't know why some people struggle with it. If someone takes 10 armed men and makes a camp at your front door, and then demands certain things, who is the aggressor?
But the damage is done, but the way to solve it is to make reparation. 1871...seems a long time ago, seems small and irrelevant, but these Asian people remember as if it was yesterday, they never forget who did what to whom. That's why Trump has to say sorry first. It's the right thing to do I think.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Yes, always...or often.

Please point to a time when Koreans, north or south, were ever a direct military threat to the continent of America itself.

The aggressor is always the one with the army where it doesn't belong.

Right! And you can prove that during both WWI and WWII, when the USA fought for the liberty of others on foreign soil.

Apparently Aussies never studied world history in school.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Right! And you can prove that during both WWI and WWII, when the USA fought for the liberty of others on foreign soil.

Apparently Aussies never studied world history in school.

I agree that in WWI and WWII we were not the aggressor.

However, in the Vietnam war and Korean war you cannot deny we had hawks in our govt urging that we become the aggressor. As for the Middle East you can blame 1st Gulf war on Saddam, however many believe the US suckered him into attacking Kuwait. Likewise, the second Gulf war is even weirder. Even if you believe the official line concerning 911 you have to have realized by now that this did not justify an attack on Iraq.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree that in WWI and WWII we were not the aggressor.

However, in the Vietnam war and Korean war you cannot deny we had hawks in our govt urging that we become the aggressor. As for the Middle East you can blame 1st Gulf war on Saddam, however many believe the US suckered him into attacking Kuwait. Likewise, the second Gulf war is even weirder. Even if you believe the official line concerning 911 you have to have realized by now that this did not justify an attack on Iraq.

I don't disagree, but let's not forget that hawks have pushed both sides into conflict, and I have never promoted the USA as "perfect."

Neither are the police perfect, but without them things would be much worse.

It's hard to deny the correlation between both military strength and Christian influence around the world. In the 19th century in was Britain, and later it was the USA. It's hard for me to understand how even Christians can't see the hand of God in this respect.

If we believe that Jerusalem should be the recognized capital of Israel, then we must also accept how God has used Trump. Did you know that both Clinton, Dubya, and Obama have all publicly promised to take this action but did nothing?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

What American governments do not understand that they were and always have been the aggressor and NK is the victim. NK builds weapons in direct proportion and response to American aggression, both as a deterrent and as a possible counter attack in the event of an American invasion. The US pushed NK down this path. It started in 1871 when America started to colonize Korea and killed 650 people.

You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ition_to_Korea

Who invaded who first?

Who is the aggressor and who is the defender?

The facts of history provide the clear answers and they cannot be rationalized as "defending America" from terrorism , communism or otherwise.

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

Revisionism. The war in Korea was started when the North Korean communists invaded the South Korean non communist. We were allies of South Korea. If North Korea doesn't like losing the war, then don't start it.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just another imaginary reason for a liberal Aussie to hate America.

If you can't say something mean, then don't say anything at all.

[awareness]

"Donald Trump recognized history. He, like King Cyrus before him, fulfilled the biblical prophecy of the gods worshipped by Jews, Christians and, yes, Muslims, that Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish state and that the Jewish people deserve a righteous, free and sovereign Israel."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/...s-capital.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If you can't say something mean, then don't say anything at all.

That explains all of the posts here about our Prez.

My father nearly lost his life in the "forgotten" Korean War. Perhaps this is personal.

I like Aussie's. My dog is an Aussie. But somebody needs to stand up to stupidity.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That explains all of the posts here about our Prez.

My father nearly lost his life in the "forgotten" Korean War. Perhaps this is personal.

I like Aussie's. My dog is an Aussie. But somebody needs to stand up to stupidity.

I say this as a pacifist, not as one who takes sides. See what your country did to your father, almost got him killed. For what? What did America gain in the Korean war? At least the middle east has oil, invading that makes some sense. And then, when it's all over, do those people respect the contribution made? Of course not. America doesn't. Korea doesn't. South Koreans want to jump the fence and meet their long lost relatives in North Korea more than they want America to help them. Learn from President Trump, evade military service where possible, but press the big red button if you have to.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I say this as a pacifist, not as one who takes sides. See what your country did to your father, almost got him killed. For what? What did America gain in the Korean war? At least the middle east has oil, invading that makes some sense. And then, when it's all over, do those people respect the contribution made? Of course not. America doesn't. Korea doesn't. South Koreans want to jump the fence and meet their long lost relatives in North Korea more than they want America to help them. Learn from President Trump, evade military service where possible, but press the big red button if you have to.

The USA stopped Communist expansion in Korea, Viet Nam, Taiwan and all of Southeast Asia, Germany, Eastern Europe, and all over the Globe. The UN has been rendered useless. Today the USA is the only resistance the world has to Russian, Chinese, and Iranian expansion efforts.

You too should be thankful for the USA, otherwise you would be under communist oppression also, either the Russian or Chinese brand, or overrun by Indonesian Islamic aggression.

I thought you had a few more smarts than that, I guess I was wrong.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is wild conjecture. NK was moving aggressively to build a nuclear capacity long before Trump's rhetoric. The only thing we can infer from the information we have is that they moved recklessly.

Blaming America for three generations of Kim ruthless dictatorships is like blaming Jesus for the sins of the whole world.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Blaming America for three generations of Kim ruthless dictatorships is like blaming Jesus for the sins of the whole world.

I am not saying the US diplomatic effort was reckless, I am saying that NK's nuclear program, setting off a huge H bomb under the mountain, was reckless.