Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

During the civil war in the US the GDP of the North rose even though most of the men went to fight in the war. At the same time the GDP of the South collapsed even though most of the work was done by slaves who did not go to the war. Mechanization allowed women to do the farm work that used to require several men.

Ever since the industrial and technological revolutions people have been frightened that the changes would result in everyone losing their jobs, hence the term "luddite" due to a movement to destroy the machines.

But the machines have freed us up to do other work. Women no longer need to be drudges. Yes, their jobs of cooking and cleaning were to a large part replaced by machines, but that simply freed them up to do other work. What woman wants to return to a time of washboards and grinding flour?

I know plenty of women who would prefer washing and cooking to programming AI. The technology is eroding the value of human beings in how they can contribute to the family/society/economy. Machines become more valuable and humans become less valuable by the measure of how they contribute to the economy or society. We see this already today where a company will spend hundreds of thousands on a robot and its maintenance but will pay their workers pittance.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I know plenty of women who would prefer washing and cooking to programming AI. The technology is eroding the value of human beings in how they can contribute to the family/society/economy. Machines become more valuable and humans become less valuable by the measure of how they contribute to the economy or society. We see this already today where a company will spend hundreds of thousands on a robot and its maintenance but will pay their workers pittance.

How are we becoming less valuable?

The standard of living of a an average US citizen is far better today than the standard of living of a Plantation owner in 1850. That is the result of the industrial revolution and technological revolution.

http://www.businessinsider.com/drive...-tesla-2017-11

Yes, self driving vehicles will eliminate many jobs for drivers. But it will also save us $300 billion in labor costs and also make the roads much safer. The driver needs to develop new skills, but he is being given 2-3 years warning before this really begins to bite. Embrace the change, otherwise you will be crushed by it.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How are we becoming less valuable?

The standard of living of a an average US citizen is far better today than the standard of living of a Plantation owner in 1850. That is the result of the industrial revolution and technological revolution.

http://www.businessinsider.com/drive...-tesla-2017-11

Yes, self driving vehicles will eliminate many jobs for drivers. But it will also save us $300 billion in labor costs and also make the roads much safer. The driver needs to develop new skills, but he is being given 2-3 years warning before this really begins to bite. Embrace the change, otherwise you will be crushed by it.

It's unrealistic to expect drivers to re-skill and become AI programmers. That sort of skill takes years to master and not everyone has the aptitude.

Value is measured by how much a person contributes to the economy through what they can produce or how they can provide service. A person who is out of work due to robots, receiving a basic income or not, is not contributing anything therefore not valuable. This is why people who work in finance or business or medicine get paid more than artists and musicians or history professors (lol) who do not contribute much to the economy. As robots replace these jobs which are traditionally seen as valuable by what they can produce or provide service, then the robots become more valuable than the humans. A robot doctor would be more valuable than a human history professor, for example.

A woman who does not have to cook or clean for her husband is also less valuable to the husband than a robot which does the job instead. This is measuring value by how much she contributes to the household. This is the biblical measure of value, the proverbs 31 woman who is always busy and producing things. If she cannot do anything because the robot is doing it for her, then she is not valuable according to proverbs 31. In that case she becomes a burden. Now a woman who cannot cook or clean or do anything else is only good for pleasure, and such a woman is being replaced by robots too with the development of mechanical vaginas. Now that's one area which I don't understand why a man would want to replace a woman with a machine.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It's unrealistic to expect drivers to re-skill and become AI programmers. That sort of skill takes years to master and not everyone has the aptitude. .

Are you serious? How did you get that from what I wrote? Honestly, this is absurd.

Butlers, Cooks, Kitchen maids, these all became hotel workers. Valets and Ladies Maids, they became seamstresses, etc.

Journalists used to use a typewriter, then they used a computer. They used to have a library to find old pictures, articles, then it was microfiche, then it was digital.

It used to be that a chauffeur was also a mechanic. The business is not "trucking" but rather "shipping". It involves inventory, receipts, tracking, loading, unloading, scheduling, tracking, trucking, etc. Just because the trucks are going to be transitioning to self driving doesn't mean that people are no longer involved in the process. The fact that you drove a truck gives you insight and an advantage to move into these other positions.

Likewise, someone who can program AI is probably not suitable for driving a truck. Working with real truck drivers on simulations would probably be essential to designing the program. Likewise, we are now teaching AI by giving them data from which they can learn patterns. This data could be videotape from truckers who are driving.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Value is measured by how much a person contributes to the economy through what they can produce or how they can provide service. A person who is out of work due to robots, receiving a basic income or not, is not contributing anything therefore not valuable. This is why people who work in finance or business or medicine get paid more than artists and musicians or history professors (lol) who do not contribute much to the economy. As robots replace these jobs which are traditionally seen as valuable by what they can produce or provide service, then the robots become more valuable than the humans. A robot doctor would be more valuable than a human history professor, for example.

Unfortunately for these "high priced jobs" which you are referring to as "high valued jobs" are very likely to be replaced shortly. For example, any doctor with the assistance of Watson can now be very similar to the top "experts" and specialists in the country. Accountants and CPA's can easily be replaced with Watson so that the local CPA guy doing tax returns on the street corner can be every bit as adroit and expert. The same is true of stock brokers. But here is where this theory breaks down. You have to have a certain amount of training to be able to use these programs. It may be feasible, but certainly unreasonable, to think that the 350 million people in this country will have access to these sophisticated computer systems and know how to use them to their fullest potential. Therefore you will not be replacing jobs, instead you will be converting the average doctor, stock broker, CPA with experts without increasing the cost to the consumer.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you serious? How did you get that from what I wrote? Honestly, this is absurd.

Butlers, Cooks, Kitchen maids, these all became hotel workers. Valets and Ladies Maids, they became seamstresses, etc.

Journalists used to use a typewriter, then they used a computer. They used to have a library to find old pictures, articles, then it was microfiche, then it was digital.

It used to be that a chauffeur was also a mechanic. The business is not "trucking" but rather "shipping". It involves inventory, receipts, tracking, loading, unloading, scheduling, tracking, trucking, etc. Just because the trucks are going to be transitioning to self driving doesn't mean that people are no longer involved in the process. The fact that you drove a truck gives you insight and an advantage to move into these other positions.

Likewise, someone who can program AI is probably not suitable for driving a truck. Working with real truck drivers on simulations would probably be essential to designing the program. Likewise, we are now teaching AI by giving them data from which they can learn patterns. This data could be videotape from truckers who are driving.



Unfortunately for these "high priced jobs" which you are referring to as "high valued jobs" are very likely to be replaced shortly. For example, any doctor with the assistance of Watson can now be very similar to the top "experts" and specialists in the country. Accountants and CPA's can easily be replaced with Watson so that the local CPA guy doing tax returns on the street corner can be every bit as adroit and expert. The same is true of stock brokers. But here is where this theory breaks down. You have to have a certain amount of training to be able to use these programs. It may be feasible, but certainly unreasonable, to think that the 350 million people in this country will have access to these sophisticated computer systems and know how to use them to their fullest potential. Therefore you will not be replacing jobs, instead you will be converting the average doctor, stock broker, CPA with experts without increasing the cost to the consumer.

You wrote before about huge demand for ai programmers and people needing to embrace change. Once robots and ai does everything where will the jobs be outside of servicing and programming robots? Because of dependency on robots and gradual de skilling of humanity, humans will be enslaved to their robot masters as servicing becomes more like serving. We see this enslavement already to a degree in the use of cell phones and the Internet..especially in young people.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

You wrote before about huge demand for ai programmers and people needing to embrace change. Once robots and ai does everything where will the jobs be outside of servicing and programming robots? Because of dependency on robots and gradual de skilling of humanity, humans will be enslaved to their robot masters as servicing becomes more like serving. We see this enslavement already to a degree in the use of cell phones and the Internet..especially in young people.

We used to have a huge amount of jobs in farming, they were replaced by machines.

[ZNPaaneah]

Trump SCOTUS pick should be grilled about Mueller probe 'before their rear end hits the chair,' says top Dem strategist

I would be extremely concerned about a "loyalty pledge". According to James it is the single biggest warning sign.