Plumb the depths of Adoption

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The anointing is the work of the divine Person, yes.

How do you determine if the person is divine? Countless folks have wasted their life following what they believed to be divine persons. What benchmark do you use to test the persons ministry?

[ZNPaaneah]

Ps 5:11 But let all who take refuge and put their trust in You rejoice,
Let them ever sing for joy;
Because You cover and shelter them,
Let those who love Your name be joyful and exult in You.


I appreciate this prayer in Psalm 5 that we would sing for joy, and that we would be joyful and exult in the Lord. Consider the person who prays to win the lottery and then it turns out to be nothing but a grief and a curse? I read of this one boxer, he had a fender bender with his rolls royce and then gave the keys to an onlooker saying this the car had given him nothing but grief. Instead of praying for the money or car they should have prayed for joy.

Then, the prayer in Psalm 5 is answered in Psalm 8

What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of [earthborn] man that You care for him?
5*Yet You have made him a little lower than [b]God,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
6*You made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

Jesus being made Lord of all and heir of all lets those that love Him be joyful and exultant. This is truly what it means to be blessed (if you are the one that doesn't walk in the counsel of the wicked, not a great day for the wicked or those that followed their advice).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ps 5:11 But let all who take refuge and put their trust in You rejoice,
Let them ever sing for joy;
Because You cover and shelter them,
Let those who love Your name be joyful and exult in You.

I am very impressed by the revelation in Ps 5 concerning prayer (even though WL said it was a natural concept).

We all know that when we pray we pray "Lord, thy will be done". But what does that mean, does it mean that His will is to heal this person from death? Hezekiah begged for this healing but it was a mistake. Does it mean its God's will to heal you from some sickness? Paul had a thorn in the flesh and it was God's will for him to have it. So then it becomes very confusing, do I pray for healing? And you can go on with many other examples.

But look at this prayer -- prays that those who take refuge in the Lord would rejoice. Jesus is the Bridegroom, we are the Bride. The end of the age is likened to a wedding day. Surely the Bridegroom's will is that the Bride would "rejoice". And it is even better than that, "rejoice and exult". Rejoice is when the widow of Nain's son is touched by Jesus on the funeral bier and rises up from the dead. Exult is when the gallows that Haman built to execute the Jews on is used to execute him instead.

These are the examples that are the covenant we have with God. To trust in God refers to trusting in our covenant. Ultimately this covenant is the "hope of our calling" to receive "the sonship".

[ZNPaaneah]

So my understanding of "adoption" in the NT is similar to Esther and Mordecai being appointed to high positions.

When a bride marries into the family that is a legal process, not by birth. Once she marries she becomes an heir of all that the groom is -- hence she rejoices.

When Haman was promoted the context was that we were reckoned as criminals to be executed on the gallows, God turned that judgement into a promotion -- hence we exult.

Neither of these examples is referring to being born again, rather they refer to the legal process involving contracts and covenants.

[ZNPaaneah]

In the book of acts there are two brothers who try to cast a demon out. The response is "Jesus I Know and Paul I know, but who are you?" That is a huge question, who are you? As a child of God you have a particular status to pray. You received that status when you were born again. Jesus referred to that when He said you wouldn't give your child a stone or a serpent, therefore our heavenly father is even more considerate than an earthly one.

But, if you are the king (Jesus) no one would dare ask "who are you". Likewise, if you are a faithful servant to the king (Paul) no one would dare ask who are you.

Therefore, adoption gives us a much more powerful status for prayer, just as Jesus said "if you abide in Him ask whatever you will and it will be done for you".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

How do you determine if the person is divine? Countless folks have wasted their life following what they believed to be divine persons. What benchmark do you use to test the persons ministry?

I was referring to Christ as the divine Person.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I was referring to Christ as the divine Person.

And how do you know He is divine? Or how do you know you’ve met the true Christ?

There are other herotical groups that claim to know the divine Christ through anointing.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

And how do you know He is divine? Or how do you know you’ve met the true Christ?

There are other herotical groups that claim to know the divine Christ through anointing.

The genuine anointing can be discerned by applying the test of spirits:

1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:31, 1 John 4:15

These are the tests that John and Paul gave to the early Christians to be able to discern the spirits and the genuine anointing - and remember at this time Christianity as we know it today did not exist, and paganism/false Christs were more rife then that it is in our "secular Christian culture" today.

Anyone who wants to use other or non-biblical methods to discern because they think they know better are almost sure to reach the wrong conclusions. The categorical "10 ways to tell...." methods that you can find on the internet for trying to discern a good marriage partner, a good job, or even whether a pastor or church is genuine, are also non-biblical approaches and do not work because they do not consider what the mouth speaks from the heart.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The genuine anointing can be discerned by applying the test of spirits:

1 John 4:2-3, 1 Cor 12:31, 1 John 4:15

These are the tests that John and Paul gave to the early Christians to be able to discern the spirits and the genuine anointing - and remember at this time Christianity as we know it today did not exist, and paganism/false Christs were more rife then that it is in our "secular Christian culture" today.

Anyone who wants to use other or non-biblical methods to discern because they think they know better are almost sure to reach the wrong conclusions. The categorical "10 ways to tell...." methods that you can find on the internet for trying to discern a good marriage partner, a good job, or even whether a pastor or church is genuine, are also non-biblical approaches and do not work because they do not consider what the mouth speaks from the heart.

By just these tests, you believe you can determine anointing?

Quotes from Evangelical below.

“We don't need to read the bible to understand the truth of it. We could gain the same knowledge from a different book or even a movie.”


“So even if they don't read the bible but follow the ministry they will get the right idea.”

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

By just these tests, you believe you can determine anointing?

Quotes from Evangelical below.

“We don't need to read the bible to understand the truth of it. We could gain the same knowledge from a different book or even a movie.”


“So even if they don't read the bible but follow the ministry they will get the right idea.”

Yes absolutely. You seem to believe that the tests are incomplete/inadequate. Why would John or Paul give their readers a test which is inadequate for the purpose?

In relation to my quotes, note that these tests mention nothing about the bible or outward fruit - we don't need the bible to discern the anointing. John and Paul and early Christians were able to discern the anointing before the New Testament was even written.

Most Christians go on a fact-checking exercise against the Bible through the use of their own intellect, instead of actually applying the spiritual tests. This is why their discernment is often wrong.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Yes absolutely. You seem to believe that the tests are incomplete/inadequate. Why would John or Paul give their readers a test which is inadequate for the purpose?

In relation to my quotes, note that these tests mention nothing about the bible or outward fruit - we don't need the bible to discern the anointing. John and Paul and early Christians were able to discern the anointing before the New Testament was even written.

Most Christians go on a fact-checking exercise against the Bible through the use of their own intellect, instead of actually applying the spiritual tests. This is why their discernment is often wrong.

I would never make such a definitive statement about something as complex as "determining the anointing". So I'd have to disagree your statement that I seem to believe them to be incomplete or inadequate, but that is really besides the point.

So I want to make sure I'm understanding you here - you don't fact check the Bible (like most Christians), instead you rely on the anointing by the Divine person (that is Christ - not Witness Lee), you confirm this anointing by applying the three tests. From this you determine what is truth and also that your understanding matches this truth. Did my summary match your thinking?