afazio - Spiritual Authority

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Trapped

2. Lee was the last great master builder to be succeeded by no one, and we just keep looking to whatever he produced for the vision to follow.......even though apparently through all the ages of human history God's principle (the unchanging One, by the way) of one minister per age unexpectedly changed!

Lee contradicted the principle that there is a minister of every age with his blended brothers teaching. He was the last great master builder? I don't recall reading that in my Bible. What hubris!

[aron]

Originally Posted by zeek

Lee contradicted the principle that there is a minister of every age with his blended brothers teaching. He was the last great master builder? I don't recall reading that in my Bible. What hubris!

So according to his feeling, Witness Lee said the Lord desired to turn the age from one brother ministering from the Bible, to no more spiritual giant and all the Body merely rehearsing and repeating that one man's ministry. Even the Lord Jesus as a man cited scripture: "it is written" and "scripture must be fulfilled" . . . but Witness Lee merely had a feeling and thus the age of church history must change? Even 'hubris' doesn't seem strong enough for this.

And Witness Lee's feeling wasn't affected by bias and self-interest? The man who gave us Timothy Lee and Daystar, and Philip Lee aka "The Office"? It's so obviously self-serving; even the most resolutely non-thinking and non-analytical among the flock must have had their consciences pricked by this kind of talk from ministry leaders.

[countmeworthy]

At the end of his ministry Brother Nee expressed his feeling that the Lord desired to turn the age from the age of spiritual giants to the age of the whole Body serving."

IFFFFF this is TRUE, it has not come to pass because the congregants and followers of Lee, exalt him and his works so much so they don't trust the Holy Spirit to guide them, to counsel them, to enlighten them.

Lee, Nee and the blendeds are STILL the LSM spiritual giants.

"on Christ the SOLID ROCK I STAND!"..and we should ALL STAND on Him and Him alone.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

IFFFFF this is TRUE, it has not come to pass because the congregants and followers of Lee, exalt him and his works so much so they don't trust the Holy Spirit to guide them, to counsel them, to enlighten them.

Some need a father figure. The need is stronger at different ages. Authority figures growing up were our parents. We're especially vulnerable to hooking to a replacement father figure when we're entering adulthood. We want to be independent but still need an authority figure. And seems once we hook our wagon to that replacement it becomes hard to unhook it.

Of course we're talking earthly authority figures. Earthly authority figures are easy to follow. Spiritual Authority is an entirely different matter.

Spiritual Authority and earthly authority are at odds with each other. Witness Lee, for example, would not allow the moving of the Spirit to usurp his leadership. When it cropped up, like at Elden Hall, he was sure to put the kibosh on it.

Earthly authority figures will not allow spiritual authority. Follow the Spirit and you won't be around very long. If you've got any sense, you won't want to be.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

So according to his feeling, Witness Lee said the Lord desired to turn the age from one brother ministering from the Bible, to no more spiritual giant and all the Body merely rehearsing and repeating that one man's ministry. Even the Lord Jesus as a man cited scripture: "it is written" and "scripture must be fulfilled" . . . but Witness Lee merely had a feeling and thus the age of church history must change? Even 'hubris' doesn't seem strong enough for this.

And Witness Lee's feeling wasn't affected by bias and self-interest? The man who gave us Timothy Lee and Daystar, and Philip Lee aka "The Office"? It's so obviously self-serving; even the most resolutely non-thinking and non-analytical among the flock must have had their consciences pricked by this kind of talk from ministry leaders.

Uh ... umm ... er ... ahh ... no, not really, aron. And to think that one of my strengths in work was analysis.

Actually, from the end of the Life-Study era onward, I was mostly board with whatever I heard from Lee or the Blendeds. I thought the problem was me. I thought the cure was more of the ministry. From what I gathered over the years, I was the rule rather than the exception.

What awakened me from years of comatose was the One Publication edict which I knew was about to divide the LC's. How could this be happening? What in the world is going on? From what I knew about Titus Chu, telling him to stop his ministry ain't never gonna happen. I could hear the din of battle in the distance. I knew we were in trouble after I read that Phoenix Accord -- "We will agree to be nice to each other." That don't sound good at all!

By using that absurd One Publication edict, LSM opened the Pandora's Box, and all sorts of skeletons from their past came out via the internet.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Uh ... umm ... er ... ahh ... no, not really, aron. And to think that one of my strengths in work was analysis.

Actually you are right. I was there when "It's now the age of small potatoes" was spoken from the dias; I never batted an eye. The age had turned. Amen.

But still, inside me some very small voice said, "Huh?"

The trick to LC church life was keeping those small voices quiet. Push them back in the closet.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Actually you are right. I was there when "It's now the age of small potatoes" was spoken from the dias; I never batted an eye. The age had turned. Amen.

But still, inside me some very small voice said, "Huh?"

The trick to LC church life was keeping those small voices quiet. Push them back in the closet.

I still remember Lee looking at John Ingalls during one training message and queried him out of the blue, "has there been one single book of spiritual value since 1945?"

John had that same "huh?" on his face, yet no words would come out of his mouth.

Lee wanted an affirmation only a lackey could provide, but no honest man of God like John could say a thing.

Did Lee really expect John to have read every single Christian book published since 1945? What kind of person would even ask such a thing?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I still remember Lee looking at John Ingalls during one training message and queried him out of the blue, "has there been one single book of spiritual value since 1945?"

John had that same "huh?" on his face, yet no words would come out of his mouth.

Lee wanted an affirmation only a lackey could provide, but no honest man of God like John could say a thing.

Did Lee really expect John to have read every single Christian book published since 1945? What kind of person would even ask such a thing?

You know what Ingalls could have replied?

"How is it that Watchman Nee had a spiritual library of some 3,000 'classics', yet supposedly nothing of value has been produced in the past 30+ years?"

But who could answer to Lee? A message was an extended monologue, with the audience members as props.