Lee as Lt. Colonel Nicholson

[aron]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Lee on the other hand tooted his own horn like he was the Minister of Advertising.

And who believes such a thing? Naive members might not know better, and they feel extreme pressure to not question it. But the upper level guys, the elders and Blendeds, they should know better. So they might be nuts, too.

There's an assembly called the Geftakys Assembly, and ex-members have their own website discussion forum, and some of them have noted the similarities with Lee. Grandiosity, obsessive control, special key words and insider meanings, alienation, and paranoia/persecution complex. And the Geftakys were not Chinese.

But Lee caught millions in China for his schemes. So there was certainly a larger cultural resonance. And today it's predominantly the Chinese grad students on the campus who come in, along with recent immigrants. They don't see the warning signs. To them it looks "normal".

And they all simply ignore the Bible, where it doesn't align. When you show them the "much discussion" in the supposedly "normal" early church, they just change the subject and move on (Acts 15:7). It just doesn't resonate with their cultural predisposition.

Originally Posted by Igzy

At least Nicholson's madness could be attributed to the time he spent under the hot Burma sun in his captors' "cooler." What was Lee's excuse? We will probably never know in this life.

Lee's experience of the hot Burma sun was his native culture. It made him think and act the way he did. If it had been mitigated, God might have used him. But it took him over, the notion that China was "virgin soil" and somehow God, through him, carried the torch of biblical purity forward. But he was shot through with cultural concepts. And he built a house of mirrors where it all shined back at him, noting but "amens" from every corner.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

There's an assembly called the Geftakys Assembly, and ex-members have their own "recovery" website forum, and some of them have noted the similarities. Grandiosity, control, and paranoia. And the Geftakys were not Chinese.

But Lee caught millions in China for his schemes. So there was certainly cultural resonance. And today it's predominantly the Chinese grad students on the campus who come in, along with recent immigrants. They don't see the warning signs. To them it looks "normal".

And they simply ignore the Bible, where it doesn't align. When you show them the "much discussion" in the supposedly "normal" early church, they just change the subject and move on (Acts 15:7). It just doesn't resonate with their cultural predisposition.

Yes, the Chinese were definitely a follow-the-leader, subsume-the-one-into-the-many culture. Which is one reason communism took them over so easily. Such a thing could never have happened in America. That's probably why the Recovery never really did that well in the USA. We value autonomy too much. As you said, they've had to bring in Asians because Americans, by and large, won't go for it.

[Cal]

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/

"You invest heart and soul in a ministry with a unique vision, and call to seriousness. You give it your all, believing that you're serving the Lord. Maybe you notice some questionable practices or teaching. But when you begin to see how you and others are being controlled, you realize that you're ending up far from your original spiritual aspirations."

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ny...Qe_w-t-tEELT4f

[aron]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Yes, the Chinese were definitely a follow-the-leader, subsume-the-one-into-the-many culture. Which is one reason communism took them over so easily. Such a thing could never have happened in America. That's probably why the Recovery never really did that well in the USA. We value autonomy too much. As you said, they've had to bring in Asians because Americans, by and large, won't go for it.

But Western culture in general, and American in particular, have their own issues, some quite severe. Yet if Americans thought their culture were a divine analogue (perhaps some occasionally have) that would be crazy, no? Or as Igzy says, 'nuts'. Witness Lee, with his insistence on no culture at all, ensured that his would reign unchallenged. And we can see its fruit.

I was reading a story on the Battle of Guadalcanal, specifically the Battle of Edson's Ridge. The commanding officer, Major General Vandegrift, thought the Japanese would attack through the low areas near Henderson Field, and assigned positions of defence accordingly. The subordinate, Lt. Colonel Edson, thought the high ground more defensible, and wanted to dig in there. He and Vandegrift's second-in-command convinced the CO that Edson's men should bivouac and "rest" on the ridge. In actuality Edson was making defensive positions. Turns out the Japanese came that way, and they were able to repulse them. Holding the high ground was invaluable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Edson%27s_Ridge

Such semi-independent, "local" thinking is a hallmark of the Americans at war. The Japanese would never question a superior. Secondly, the Japanese came in human wave assaults, even when it was clear that they were not succeeding they continued to pour men into the meat-grinder. And in Korea ten years later it was similar: the individual didn't matter as much as the Cause. Americans, by contrast, deeply value the individual.

Not that one way is superior to another, but local church "normality" is Asian. Witness Lee talking to Sal Benoit is a great example: Lee can borrow $100K from Sal and the Bostonians for his son's motor home business, but Sal can't see the books. "None of your business". Yet Sal and the Bostonians have to keep sending $$ to Anaheim for books, trainings, donations for the ministry advance, campus building projects etc. Shut up and follow the Cause. To question or challenge is "rebellion".

That's not the way they think in the US. I've written on George Washington's leadership: He gathered his generals in a tent, let them hash it out... do we attack, or do we stop and regroup? Washington had final say, but they all batted the idea around in front of him. Would Lee ever do this? Of course not! That would be a sign of weakness, in his cultural lens.

"You are in the [Chinese] army, now." When Lee wrote in the RecV footnotes that all local churches should be "absolutely identical, with no differences what soever", we all knew what it meant: absolute, thoughtless conformity with HQ, with no independent, local initiatives of the local assemblies permitted. Anything that stood out would be "ambition", the "gopher" that poked his head out of the hole. The Holy Spirit's ability to nudge you to take the south road out of Jerusalem, and run up to the Ethiopian in a chariot, and baptise him and send him on his way without calling him back to HQ for "training" - gone forever.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by aron

The Holy Spirit's ability to nudge you to take the south road out of Jerusalem, and run up to the Ethiopian in a chariot, and baptise him and send him on his way without calling him back to HQ for "training" - gone forever.

Well, for them at least.

Continuing on the subject of nuttiness. If you were going to set up a business, or school, or any operation, would you put in the by-laws the following:

"Once we establish the rules and parameters of this operation, they can never be changed or questioned. We cannot adapt to new information, realizations or experiences, because we are assuming there can never be any that are relevant. If we, the founders, pass on, then these rules will be that much more set in stone and can never be questioned, forever and ever. Anyone who does question them or this resolution will themselves be put in question."

Can you imagine any operation having any long-term success with such an attitude? But that's EXACTLY the attitude of the LCs. Just nutty.