Today's Jerusalem for Christians

[aron]

I will bold some sections below:

Originally Posted by JJ

The angel that had the last of the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues carried John away in spirit to a great and high mountain to see the bride, the wife of the lamb that comes down out of heaven from God. From there he could see the previously mentioned things about this Jerusalem plus that it:
• Has the glory of God
• Her brilliance is as a crystal clear stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper
• It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel written on them
• Each wall on east, north, south, and west had three gates
• The city walls had twelve foundation stones, and on them names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

• The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone: The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald; The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.

• And, the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
• John saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
• And, the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb

• The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

• In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed.
• And, they (nations) will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.

• Nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Then the one who spoke to John showed him:
• A river of water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

• There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

• And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.

What about the possibility of the New Jerusalem as thematic apposition or counterweight to "the nations" or "the Gentiles"? In the NJ we see evidence of the 12 tribes of the sons of Israel. The Lord had promised the 12 disciples that they'd sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes, no? So the apostles being mentioned as particular precious stones is probably connected.

Now, what of the "nations" (GK:ethnoi) who walk in the light of the NJ, whose kings enter and bring glory* (a la the Ethiopian queen to Solomon), and who are healed by the leaves of the tree? If there is no longer Greek nor Jew, whither the nations?

The traditional view (shared by Lee) has seemed to be, "These are those who help the persecuted Jews (and non-raptured Christians) in the Great Tribulation."

My response is, "If this is so, why does God populate the New Earth with those non-believing Gentiles who do good for 3.5 years, while unbelievers who do good for the preceding several millennia burn in everlasting torment because, you know, salvation is by faith alone and nobody is good, or does good?"

Does that make any sense? Would that have been making sense to the Jewish writer, and his 1st-century (largely Jewish) readers? Remember, the Gentiles had not yet expelled the Jews from the assembly. The Christian faith at that point was more 'Jewish' in outlook than in later centuries.

I say it's possibly Jewish believers who are the NJ (the 12 tribes), and Gentile believers who are (still) the nations. They were the nations in the OT, the NT*, and chapter 21 and 22 of Revelation.

For corroboration from the same author, look at Revelation 11:2 -- the "nations" (ethnoi) will trample the "Holy City" for 42 months. Some of the unbelieving Gentiles will attack Earthly Jerusalem. They will be vaporized - lake of fire action. The believing Gentiles who submit to the Christ, i.e., [Gentile] Christians, will be the "nations" who survive the whole mess and have eternal life outside the NJ. They get free access, but it still is the City of the Jews.

Otherwise we get this weird appendage of non-believing Gentiles who live outside the NJ. If so, then what good is faith? And how can the Gentiles get simultaneously burned up in the middle of the book, and still end up living forever outside the NJ? The RecV footnote said "they live forever, being healed by the tree of life, but, you know, it's not eternal life!" (A teen-ager would here say, "Doooyyyeeee!!!")

*For further NT corroboration, see the "magi from the East" who bring treasure for the infant Jesus, and extensive NT passages on Paul's $$ collection work:

Acts 20:16 Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus to avoid spending time in the province of Asia, for he was in a hurry to reach Jerusalem, if possible, by the day of Pentecost.

Acts 24:17 "After an absence of several years, I (Paul) came to Jerusalem to bring my people gifts for the poor and to present offerings.

1 Corinthians 16:1-3 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people [the Jews]: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.

2 Corinthians 8:1-4 And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people [the Jews].

Romans 15:25-28 Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the Lord’s people there. For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the Lord’s people in Jerusalem [the Jews]. They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. So after I have completed this task and have made sure that they have received this contribution, I will go to Spain and visit you on the way

In Galatians 2:2, when the [Jewish] brothers told Paul to "remember the poor", they meant not generically, but that the Gentiles that he was going to bring to faith in Christ were expected in return to make some material contributions for the poor [Jews] of Jerusalem.

Now if you read of the NJ that "The 'ethnoi' walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it", it all makes perfect sense. John the writer of the Revelation was there at the Acts 15 conference with Paul.