RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[UntoHim]

Facebook posting by Jo Casteel June 25th 2019
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From a saint in the church in Fullerton,
“The elders in the church in Fullerton announced a sexual predators sin in the meeting last lord’s day. There were 12 accusations against him and they waited 6 years to expose him. I think your Facebook post helped to get it done.”

THIS. THIS IS WHY I’M SPEAKING UP. After releasing my letter I have had report after report coming in from saints from all over regarding hidden abuses.

I have had to be in touch with the police due to learning so many coverups in the Lord’s recovery. Some are from years ago, some are current. I have learned of more cases of assault on sisters than I would ever want to know. It’s been horrible having stories flooding in from the many abuses.

Want to know how many cases have been handled? FELLOWSHIP. Were the police called? NOPE. Were the other saints warned about the perpetrator? NOPE.

This culture has got to stop. It started with the covering up of Witness Lee’s sons Philip Lee and Timothy Lee. Our history is founded on a culture of covering up. The end justifies the means...

And to all the saints who say there are problems everywhere: Most groups are not claiming to be God’s move on earth AND the LORD’s recovery AND to be Philadelphia AND that they are becoming the New Jerusalem. With grand claims like that, comes grand responsibility.

And to all the saints asking me if I have sins. You bet I do. I am and was a top sinner. But I have never claimed to be the acting God on earth, or a deputy authority, commander in chief of the Lord’s army, the wise master builder, or the minister of the age. Someone in that position also shoulders great responsibility with the people under their care.

And to all the saints saying THEIR locality is just so amazing and reports things: GREAT. That’s a start. But what about the countless localities that haven’t and don’t? What about the feeling in the Body? What about compassion for the many who have been wounded in this system? You are a part of the problem if you are just happy about your locality and don’t have a feeling for what occurs in other localities.

The elders in our own locality made it clear they wouldn’t fellowship with Greg and I about any abuses that didn’t occur locally. They can get together and fellowship about the work on the campus regionally, but can’t discuss abuses that occur regionally. THIS IS A PROBLEM. This culture needs to change.

I’m in fellowship with several brave elders from other localities who are hoping to be an agent of change in this system. If the dear elders who are helping to shepherd the dear saints would shoulder some responsibility in this, many saints could be protected from damage.

Using keeping the oneness and fear of being divisive to keep so many abuses hidden is sick. I cannot and will not be quiet about this, even though this is one of the more difficult experiences of my life.

EDIT: I have now learned that the sexual predator from Fullerton is leaving the local churches in a public way. There is a possibility that the only reason the church in Fullerton is speaking up about him is due to him leaving the local churches.
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[Cal]

Thank God for this brave sister. What a tiger. Somebody stand with her!

I can give you guys in the Local Churches the answer if you want it.

The answer is to cut ties with LSM and the bullying Blended Brothers.

You appreciate some of Lee's ministry? Fine. Don't you already have all you need of it? The man died 22 years ago. Do you think there are any crucial hidden riches of his remaining that are going to come out? Do you think the BBs are going to be able to add anything worth the trouble of dealing with their nonsense? They are already on record as saying they cannot and will not add to it. So the only function they perform is to regurgitate it and organize its distribution. The first is unnecessary and the second could be performed by a team of trained monkeys.

As for their so-called "leadership," it is the source of all the problems. Take a good look and tell me if you like what you see. These are the guys that hide sexual predators and punish their victims. Do you really want that kind of "leadership?" The Church is supposed to discern true leaders and apostles. It is not supposed to blindly submit to those who claim to be those things.

You have all that you need. You have enough ministry. You have the church. You have each other. You have fellowship with other churches and believers you trust.

YOU DON'T NEED THOSE GUYS. They have nothing good you don't already have and they have a lot of bad things that are hurting you. DUMP THEM!

That will solve the vast majority of your problems.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim-Facebook posting by Jo Casteel June 25th 2019

It started with the covering up of Witness Lee’s sons Philip Lee and Timothy Lee.

I'm not on Facebook, but somebody needs to tell Jo that it actually started with Watchman Nee, and Lee's cover up of his sexual sins. Where do you think Philip and Timothy got it?

Basically, it rots from the head down.

But what can we expect? They are selling something. They are selling the "Lord's" Recovery. And they can't allow anything to dull the shine of it.

The Catholics aren't the only ones guilty of it. All the churches and denomination, and non-denominations do it.

A local very conservative Southern Baptist church here did it. One that I attended as a kid. They sent their confessed rapist thieving preacher up the road, with a letter of good recommendation. Why? Because they didn't want to stain the reputation of the church.

Personally, I think, Jesus should sue them all for defamation.

Originally Posted by Jo

And to all the saints who say there are problems everywhere: Most groups are not claiming to be God’s move on earth AND the LORD’s recovery AND to be Philadelphia AND that they are becoming the New Jerusalem. With grand claims like that, comes grand responsibility.

That's a valid point. They are definitely misrepresenting and defaming God, by claiming to be HIS movement on the earth.

But still, most groups claim to be representing Christ, God, and the Bible. They just have more sense than to claim they are God's one and only.

Originally Posted by Jo

And to all the saints asking me if I have sins. You bet I do. I am and was a top sinner. But I have never claimed to be the acting God on earth, or a deputy authority, commander in chief of the Lord’s army, the wise master builder, or the minister of the age.

My question to Jo is, what took you so long to catch on?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

The Catholics aren't the only ones guilty of it. All the churches and denomination, and non-denominations do it.

.....

My question to Jo is, what took you so long to catch on?

How long will it take, Harold, for you to catch on that your cynicism is also part of the problem?


I think your last comment was rude and inappropriate.

[aron]

On the FB thread they're talking about Daystar, and someone is asking, "Daystar is somewhat known. What about Linko? Other than the 1986 Elders Training tape and the Localchurchdiscussions forum, I would have never heard of it. Brothers I had asked have no idea what happened to the money for the proposed land development deal in Taiwan."

Originally Posted by askseek

Don R. on Daystar and other business failures

Linko was something that the office came up with. It was presented as an example of the wonderful God ordained leadership of the recovery. After a lot of money was raised and spent on the property and many plans made and a great hub bub made, the brilliant office learned that the land had not been approved for development and was basically useless.

I never supported this project and the young BBs promoted it as a means to humble the elders. Minuro gave a stirring speech at an elders coworkers meeting about how the elders would be blessed if they went to Linko and shoveled dirt. He promised that the Spirit would enliven you as you shoveled dirt and they would be greatly rewarded spiritually if they gave up being an elder and went to Linko to shovel dirt.

Just another boondoggle. Just another ridiculous project proposed by the office and the deputy authority. How things had changed!! Yet the Daystar fiasco was the beginning in the USA of one scheme after another which was divinely judged. We were very much like the nation of Israel. We had great victories and huge failures. Solomon built the temple and then his immorality and projects caused the nation to be divided. The Bible is faithful to record both the victories and blessings and the defeats and failures.

I recall a conversation with Witness Lee regarding the American character and his failure to take this factor into consideration. Witness Lee told me that he had learned that Americans are susceptible to “hero worship.” They do not critically consider what their leaders may propose. He believed that some of his wrong headed ideas had gotten support due to this flaw in the American character and that he needed to be careful not to take advantage of this weakness. Yet we know he repeatedly took advantage of this American characteristic.

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I would assume that every church handled these matters in their own way. In Dallas, we never presented Daystar to my knowledge even though there was a lot of talk as a brother attempted to sell them to the public and sometimes one was parked in our parking lot.

After a meeting, we permitted brother Chang to present his vitamin business. I bought some. Also we were contacted about a savings program that the LSM was sponsoring to encourage the young people to save their surplus. It was called “the little bankers.” An elder in a church would collect and record additions and interest to someone's account. I was asked to take care of the Dallas saints. I had a meeting with some of the young people and a few put in a few dollars. Unfortunately, I put $500 into an account for myself. We all thought we could just withdraw at any time. Then I learned the money went for a last ditch effort to keep Daystar afloat. Say goodbye to it. Later, WL asked me to sign a waver of forgiveness from the LSM. Silly me. I signed the release and kissed the money good-bye. Compared to what many lost in Daystar etc my little bit was something to just forget about.

I never mentioned Linko in Dallas but it was a big deal in Irving complete with models of the buildings to be built etc. Because the church in Dallas would not join in the cheerleading and fund raising from Irving there was more and more a strained relationship. Dallas did give money for Irving and the goal and purpose for the facility was shared. Benson came over a time or two and did some fund raising for that hall after a Lord’s table.

Usually Dallas had a sizable surplus in our bank accounts. On three occasions in Texas area elders meetings Benson and Ray put a press on Dallas to release our extra funds for Irving and LSM. We said no each time as our conscience did not agree that the money had been given by the saints for the questionable projects. This put quite a strain on our relationship.

Enough for now about these events. I am getting a little sick at my stomach.

Witness Lee's comments to Don R. on the "naiive and gullible Americans" is kind of funny coming from a Chinese. Looking at what happened in the PRC from 1989 on, with the importation of LSM slogans - "The age of the word is over, it is now the age of the spirit" - hello Lord Changshou Shouters -- I think the Americans have nothing on the Chinese.

However, I firmly believe Chinese culture has a place at the proverbial table. All cultures are welcome, at every table, for that matter. "From every tribe and tongue and nation"... 'nuff said. But for WL to say "no culture" in the LR church ensured the domination of his [Chinese] culture therein.

Every culture, tongue, people has aspects that can balance and enhance the others' (one of the things "naïve and gullible Americans" do, for instance, is discuss their failures, and their leaders' failures, and learn from them).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

How long will it take, Harold, for you to catch on that your cynicism is also part of the problem?


I think your last comment was rude and inappropriate.

Well okay. But I caught on that the local church was/is a cult back circa 1980.

So I'm mystified by people that have join since then. And mystified by those staying in for decades since.

And maybe my last question was rude. Maybe not. Still it will likely be a question that troubles Jo and Greg for a long time.

And likely a question that troubles you. It's certainly a question that troubles me, still today. I chalk it up to ignorance. But that doesn't somehow satisfied the itch in the question.

We should all question it. How and why did we fall for it? And why didn't we catch onto it quickly?

And brother, you have no clue about the extent of my cynicism, toward the local church, and the human inclination to join cults in general. I see it happening all the time, and I'm puzzled by it.

My cynicism is a problem sure ... to those supporting the local church. I'm not much into coddling them. They didn't coddle me, nor many, many, untold many others, with their excommunicating and quarantining. They're playing it rough and tumble. So I don't want to hear whining when I give 'em rough and tumble back.

So shame, shame, on those that haven't caught on to the deception.

Still brother Igzy, I'm sorry for offending you. Mea Culpa.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by awareness

My question to Jo is, what took you so long to catch on?

Harold !!
Brainwashing, control, manipulation, fear are very strong strongholds. I commend her boldness, courage, and strength that came from ALMIGHTY GOD. It is much easier for a newbie in the LSM or an insignificant person in the LSM to walk out.

It is much much harder and YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS that those who were raised in the LSM, who have family and loved ones, friends and 'comfort' in the LSM due to their treatment because the way they are towing the line, etc to leave the LSM even though they see troubling situations. If you did not watch CHERNOBYL, it was an eye opener how brainwashed people were/are. They never questioned what they were told to do. If they did, they suffered the consequences.

In this case, she and the precious people in the LSM were/are bound by the lying teachers under Lee. It is just as common a problem in the RCC, in denominations, in the Mormon church, the JW, the diehard democrats, the diehard republicans... any group.

It is also a fact many people are controlled by their own opinions. I know several people who try to control conversations by stating vehemently their own opinions making it difficult for people to converse with them and consequently these opinionated people right or wrong in their views drive people away from them. I myself have been guilty of being controlled by my own opinions.

My spiritual life has been a work in progress but the more I commune with Christ and His Holy Spirit through reading, studying and praying, the more the LORD is helping me to express myself in spirit and in truth. I am still a work in progress but at least I am striving to be attentive to the SPIRIT living and operating in me. Just saying.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Facebook posting by Jo Casteel June 25th 2019
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From a saint in the church in Fullerton,

“The elders in the church in Fullerton announced a sexual predators sin in the meeting last lord’s day. There were 12 accusations against him and they waited 6 years to expose him. I think your Facebook post helped to get it done.”

THIS. THIS IS WHY I’M SPEAKING UP. After releasing my letter I have had report after report coming in from saints from all over regarding hidden abuses.

I have had to be in touch with the police due to learning so many coverups in the Lord’s recovery. Some are from years ago, some are current. I have learned of more cases of assault on sisters than I would ever want to know. It’s been horrible having stories flooding in from the many abuses.

30 years ago, THE LORD sent men of God from around the globe to Witness Lee decrying the abuses and sexual immorality at LSM. They were gifted leaders from SoCal, Europe, Texas, Africa, Northeast, Southeast and personal co-workers with WL. Their accounts of events have filled this LCD Forum. Witness Lee discarded them all as trash, accused them of being vile lepers orchestrating a global rebellion -- all to protect his degenerate son Philip and his own growing empire.

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Today, these sins and crimes, past and present, have long been covered by Recovery leaders, while they punish the victims for speaking up. Abusers, molesters, and enablers are protected from accountability by numerous false teachings, dozens of legal threats by the DCP staff, and their horrendous bully pulpit. But times have changed. We have passed thru the #MeToo era, and have their most feared enemy -- the internet. Since the Recovery leadership will not listen to any of those THE LORD sends to them, they must be treated as Gentiles. Victims should call the police, and not their elders.

THE LORD hates evil shepherds that hurt His children. The Bible is filled with His attitudes about them. Recovery leaders have rejected every Prophet which THE LORD has sent to them. Has He not judged Israel for killing the prophets He sent to them. Maybe they will listen to the Police. Perhaps the Press.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

30 years ago, THE LORD sent men of God from around the globe to Witness Lee decrying the abuses and sexual immorality at LSM. They were gifted leaders from SoCal, Europe, Texas, Africa, Northeast, Southeast and personal co-workers with WL. Their accounts of events have filled this LCD Forum. Witness Lee discarded them all as trash, accused them of being vile lepers orchestrating a global rebellion -- all to protect his degenerate son Philip and his own growing empire.

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Today, these sins and crimes, past and present, have long been covered by Recovery leaders, while they punish the victims for speaking up. Abusers, molesters, and enablers are protected from accountability by numerous false teachings, dozens of legal threats by the DCP staff, and their horrendous bully pulpit. But times have changed. We have passed thru the #MeToo era, and have their most feared enemy -- the internet. Since the Recovery leadership will not listen to any of those THE LORD sends to them, they must be treated as Gentiles. Victims should call the police, and not their elders.

THE LORD hates evil shepherds that hurt His children. The Bible is filled with His attitudes about them. Recovery leaders have rejected every Prophet which THE LORD has sent to them. Has He not judged Israel for killing the prophets He sent to them. Maybe they will listen to the Police. Perhaps the Press.

30 years ago they covered their ears, eyes and mouth. Why? According to EM it made WL happy. 15 years ago they covered their ears and gnashed their teeth at Titus. So here we are today? Who is responsible for this? That is what I want to know.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

30 years ago they covered their ears, eyes and mouth. Why? According to EM it made WL happy. 15 years ago they covered their ears and gnashed their teeth at Titus. So here we are today? Who is responsible for this? That is what I want to know.

I want to know what "this" is?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I want to know what "this" is?

When John I. came to Irving and talked to Ray and Benson they covered their ears, saying it was a local matter. They have to bear responsibility for that action. They participated in the sister's rebellion, facilitating the cover up of PL's sins. They have to bear responsibility for that action. When brothers raised alarms whether from Germany or Ohio, they attacked, slandered, and excommunicated them. They must take responsibility for those actions. All those actions have played a part in allowing abusers to run free in their little sect, and they are the ones responsible for that. They have been fully aware of what was going on from the first (I was in Houston when one of the victims of PL came to live there) and they chose to cover their ears, eyes and mouth. Well, they will be judged for every action they have done and also for all the things they have not done.

The Lord says "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". I was quoting something Ray once said to me. A mistake had been made during the construction of the Irving meeting hall, I had supervised the brother who made the mistake and now Ray was berating us asking "I want to know who is responsible for this!" Which of course was me.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago, THE LORD sent Lee's perhaps most gifted student Titus Chu to the Blendeds, using pages of quotes from Nee's and Lee's own writings. TC, highly respected in both the US and SE Asia, attempted to bring much needed reforms in the Recovery to leaders at LSM who had totally lost their way. They held a Kangaroo Court at their Whistler Resort ITERO in absentia accusing him of all sorts of non-biblical "heresies," like wanting clean sheets in Thailand. Since then every brother or sister protesting LSM's actions has also been thrown under the bus.

Ohio, if Titus Chu was Lee's best student then what is that really saying considering all the distain here for Witness Lee?

I'll share what's undoubtedly going to be an unpopular view here on the forum.

The reason I came to these boards a little over a year ago was because of concern for the people I've gotten to know, not within Witness Lee's Local Churches, but within Titus Chu's.

I understand you left in 2006 so you may be unaware of what the Mid-West Local Churches look like today but I will say this; When I first started reading about Witness Lee and his ministry on the forums, I thought to myself how familiar it all looked and sounded...

Now I don't know Titus Chu intimately, and frankly I'm not sure if that's something that is even possible (because everyone's all so suspicious of one another), but I have seen enough to judge. And I've actually seen a lot...

From what I have seen, I can tell you this; the "Kangaroo court" and the quarantining of Titus for "selfish ambition" are both fully justified....at least in the sight of men. And I have good reason to say that.

After 13 years of so called "reform" and no real change or distinction in doctrine or practice between the LSM and GLA it's obvious that the Lord hadn't sent Titus at all, Titus sent Titus. If you want to know why reform didn't happened, Neitzsche and the abyss explains it.

Neither side listened to each other probably because both sides were seeking their own interests in 2006. Either way, why would you want to reform something that wasn't the Lord's to begin with?

If it's foolish to think God chooses sides in politics, the same applies here. LSM vs GLA in no different then Democrat vs Republican. Two opposing parties, same single system.

With that said, all that were directly involved on both sides need to repent for the damage this division caused to all the families. And anyone that's keeping that division alive isn't helping the situation.

Pray for Titus and pray for the leaders in the LSM so that they can be both reconciliated to each other and to Christ. But if no reconciliation takes place, then like Jo and Greg, people need to start leaving those unhealthy environments otherwise they'd just be fighting someone else's battle.

[Ohio]

Jo S, you're hovering over every thread.

Better take your politics over to Alt-Views.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Ohio, if Titus Chu was Lee's best student then what is that really saying considering all the distain here for Witness Lee?

I've said before, that Dong Yu Lan and Titus Chu probably were Witness Lee's best students. When DYL's lieutenants told inquirer's that his (DYL) finances were a "black box" that none could open (questions were raised because DYL's children apparently were getting the commercial contracts to manage group housing and meeting spaces), I thought, "Boy that sounds just like WL with Saul Benoit." Coincidence? Probably not.

Likewise, Titus Chu wanted to be a Spiritual Giant (LSM's own term), and the Blendeds had said that the age of Spiritual Giants was over, so they pushed him out. His crime was that he wanted to be just like Witness Lee. At some point it should be painfully obvious that this is a system created and administered by fallen, grasping humans. It isn't the Lord's recovery. It is human selfishness fueling error. And how many people got hurt?

"It would be better that you do not stumble one of these little ones..."

[Raptor]

The following is in reference to a recent post from Jo Casteel on her FB letter. She writes about a LSM video that came out announcing a monthly subscription to a "new" publication: "Ministry Digest". Please take note of the following definition of the "job" of an elder that is slipped in...(and then run the other way.)

“To be an elder is actually very easy. It’s very simple. We have one job: bring the ministry to the saints and bring the saints to the ministry. That solves all the problems in the church and it solves all the saints problems.”

http://bit.ly/2019FunctionofanElderMinistry

My take: When in the christian life and church life you make the goal something other than the faith, something other than Christ, you open the door for all kinds of other things to come in, no matter how good or "scriptural" that other goal is. When you make a man and his ministry the goal (it does not matter at all that you believe it is THE, unique, exclusive, complete and final ministry of the age), everything is distorted, because you have already misaimed concerning the faith.

So having been seduced by the bait of such a "noble MOTA cause" you arrive at a distorted understanding from which you leaven, reduce and distort the function of an elder to a "simple job" of bringing "the ministry to the saints and the saints to the ministry". You have allowed something else to come in.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

My take: When in the christian life and church life you make the goal something other than the faith, something other than Christ, you open the door for all kinds of other things to come in, no matter how good or "scriptural" that other goal is. When you make a man and his ministry the goal (it does not matter at all that you believe it is THE, unique, exclusive, complete and final ministry of the age), everything is distorted, because you have already misaimed concerning the faith.

So having been seduced by the bait of such a "noble MOTA cause" you arrive at a distorted understanding from which you leaven, reduce and distort the function of an elder to a "simple job" of bringing "the ministry to the saints and the saints to the ministry". You have allowed something else to come in.

I remember a comment TC made about "door-knocking." Every last detail was spelled out for the "door-knockers;" nothing was left to chance, the technique was perfected -- what to wear, what to say, how to answer, and don't forget to "turn left" once you finish with the last house.

Then TC quipped in a Cleveland brothers meeting, "we should hire unbelievers to do this, they could do a better job than us."

[aron]

(Recently posted on the FB page)

“CULT-LIKE MATH 101”

(➕ ➖ ✖️ ➗)

4 ways to identify “cult-like” behaviors with simple MATH:

➕ “Cults” typically publish their own materials in addition to the Bible, and end up promoting them beyond the Bible itself. They feel that the Bible is insufficient in itself and distribute their own “publications” that they use to explain and promote their beliefs and positions above and beyond that of the Bible. / Any questions here??? Go to any “local church” meeting and what are the majority if not ALL of the “followers” speaking and quoting from?? Check the name on the side of it. Witness Lee/LSM?? What books do they have on display there?? Any outside of LSM publications??? How many? (Do the math!) ✔️

➖ “Cults” typically also detract or devalue truths in the “Bible”. Examples from LSM: 1) Teaching that the miracles that the Lord performed are not “relevant” today, that they were only relevant to prove that Jesus was the messiah, and are not “relevant” today... / EXCEPT that Jesus said that even greater things will be done in His name after He goes to the Father and the gift of the Holy Spirit is received by the believers. 2) Teaching that speaking in tongues is immature and not “relevant” today... / EXCEPT that Paul said he spoke in tongues “more than all of you”
3) Teaching that the book of James is too “low” and should not have been included in the Bible... / NO COMMENT needed here.
COMMENT: “Why are there so few “miracles” or “unexplainable acts of God” or even “fruit of the Spirit” experienced or observed in the “LSM churches”??? EASY: Read the end of Mathew 13: “Jesus did not perform many miracles there because their unbelief/lack of faith.” ✔️

✖️ “Cults” typically magnify, revere, and/or elevate a “man” to an “exalted” status. That one is easy: Witness Lee. Teaching that he was the last and greatest “minister of the age”, and that there will be no one else after him. At every “semi-annual training”, at least one significant portion of a message is taken to “defend” or “elevate” and promote the importance of Witness Lee, above that of any other member of the Body of Christ. / There is only ONE man who was ever “greater” than any other man; His name is Jesus! Even Paul himself said do not be a “follower” of him, and that he was the “least of these” and “unworthy to be called an apostle”. Paul did not think of himself as greater or higher or more significant than any other believer, and yet he wrote and unveiled the majority of the New Testament ministry or “economy”. / To this day, LSM churches use and quote almost, if not exclusively “Witness Lee” writings and publications in meetings. In fact they quote Witness Lee by far more than Paul or Jesus Himself. ✔️

➗ This one is easy. “Cults” typically create an atmosphere of “exclusivity” which in turn creates further division(s) among the body of Christ. That one has been mentioned and explained sufficiently in other posts. They speak of “poor poor Christianity”, demean and devalue other believers, including not recognizing other groups of believers as valid “local churches” that don’t follow the teachings of “Witness Lee”. ✔️

While you may not find some of these details specifically mentioned within the writings, teachings and/or publications of Witness Lee directly, you will undoubtedly find such RAMPANT views taught and propagated throughout their practices, gatherings, and “trainings”. To be clear, I have never read or heard (from multiple videos and publications) Witness Lee personally exalt himself to such status. Nor did I find his teachings and own words (for the most part) to promote such divisive and errant practices. However, I was personally trained by his supposed appointed leadership and successors, often referred to as “Brother We”, for two full years, completing the FTTA in 2002. I was most certainly taught by them directly, in addition to countless “elders” throughout the US, such errant, divisive, and “cult-like” practices, attitudes, and positions. But the most telling evidence, of course, is in the THOUSANDS of testimonies of those who have personally experienced the “fruit”/damage of such ministry, left such ministry, and continue to stand and testify to such atrocities.

Why such a strong word as “atrocities” you might ask?? That is in reference to the even GREATER number of lives who were raised or spent a substantial portion of their lives under such “ministry”, and who after experiencing such damaging “fruit” have ultimately lost, left and/or given up altogether their faith in God, who were taught/“brainwashed” the better part of their lives that there is nowhere else they could possibly meet on the earth, with any other group(s) apart from such self-proclaimed “local churches”, where they could find the riches and richness of the Lord Himself among other believers. I know countless numbers of them personally, as do the hundreds and thousands of those who have also publicly spoken their testimonies both here and elsewhere throughout the past decades, that have ultimately given up hope in “God” altogether because of that they were taught. By the way, that includes me also, where it has taken me years to get beyond such errant and divisive teachings to finally find the full peace and joy once again to pursue the Lord with “normal”, humble, seeking Christians among other groups. Yet WOW, what a joy it is to finally be set free from such bondage, clouds and darkness, and to once again be reunited with such pure, genuine, healthy, humble, seeking, loving, “fruit of the Spirit”-filled believers within the body of Christ, where NO “man” is exalted, except the NAME ABOVE ALL NAMES, the Messiah Himself, JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD!!!

Jesus is Lord! Let NO other name be exalted!!!

But finally, make no mistake about it... My heart breaks and even mourns for those, many of which I consider to be some of the dearest believers and friends I have ever known, who are so deeply entrapped, entangled, and snared by it, and know no other way to go on with the Lord, apart from or outside of such dark and diluted, toxic “ministry”. This is by no means a personal attack directly against them, although I imagine most will receive it as such. Yet what does one do who so dearly loves the so many who blindly (horse blinders) and/or unknowingly continue to drink from such poisonous cup. Does one just leave quietly or silently and NOT sound the alarm or cry out to warn those whom they love concerning the poison within such cup that they have finally been able to so clearly identify. I can only imagine what happened to those who tried to do the same among other “cult-like” groups from within. I can only imagine how the leadership within those “cults” or “cult-like” groups referred to, spoke of, warned of, and taught concerning those who spoke out or resisted... Maybe like I was taught for two years, that they were the “opposers”, the “rebellious ones”, the “unclear ones”, “those without a proper governing or controlling vision” (well at least they admit to the “controlling” part there). Maybe they were also “inoculated”, or discouraged to not listen to, or be open to, or objectively consider any such criticism. Maybe they were also warned to not read such criticism as it would open them up to being “poisoned” too (another FEAR tactic).

SOUND FAMILIAR ANYONE???

Yet how would one come to realize that they were in fact being poisoned decade by decade, year after year, drop by drop???

Maybe by reading the word once again. Maybe by appealing to the Lord to open their eyes to see. Or maybe by simply considering the fruit from the tree... or LACK thereof??

Growth vs stagnation?
Lasting fruit vs diminished?
Oneness vs divisiveness?
Love vs judgement & criticism?
Humility vs pride?
Freedom vs control?
A “god-man” vs God HIMSELF?

Who do you follow???

A man who died 22 years ago?

Or a man who resurrected over 2000 years ago, and still lives today???

Don’t tell me “both.” Don’t bring up your “Paul and Timothy” analogy again. Timothy didn’t raise up churches to only teach and speak the words of Paul. You don’t see any other group of believers who meet and only publish, read, and speak from the writings of Paul. Or Peter. Or John. Or any other disciple. Or any other apostle... do you???

SO WHY WITNESS LEE ??? !!! ???

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The following is in reference to a recent post from Jo Casteel on her FB letter. She writes about a LSM video that came out announcing a monthly subscription to a "new" publication: "Ministry Digest". Please take note of the following definition of the "job" of an elder that is slipped in...(and then run the other way.)

“To be an elder is actually very easy. It’s very simple. We have one job: bring the ministry to the saints and bring the saints to the ministry. That solves all the problems in the church and it solves all the saints problems.”

http://bit.ly/2019FunctionofanElderMinistry

So an elder's job is very easy, you are a salesman for LSM. Sell the ministry, that is it.

Those not familiar with the LC may confuse "bring the saints to the ministry" with Paul's word that an elder should be counted as double honor who is able to minister the word. But our experience has shown they are not interested in elders who can minister the word, that is the fast track to becoming a target of LSM. No, "bring the saints to the ministry" simply means be a good salesman of LSM materials.

[byHismercy]

I knew I should have signed up for Cult Math when I had the chance.....I am so happy for Jo and her family....the Lord pulled the veil away, blessing them. He is who I credit for allowing me to see the system we were in.....I do feel it was a veil over my face. Asking Jo why she didn't see it sooner is silly, Harold. 'Why didn't you know back before you knew!?!' I think the deception of the LC goes deeper with those they consider 'outsiders', vs those on the inside, though. That is exactly why it is so insidious! At any rate, God bless Jo and family! Rebel Lady!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by aron

Likewise, Titus Chu wanted to be a Spiritual Giant (LSM's own term), and the Blendeds had said that the age of Spiritual Giants was over, so they pushed him out. His crime was that he wanted to be just like Witness Lee. At some point it should be painfully obvious that this is a system created and administered by fallen, grasping humans. It isn't the Lord's recovery. It is human selfishness fueling error. And how many people got hurt?

Not to take away from anything in Jo's letter, but the ongoing power struggle between LSM and GLA is what's causing most harm to the people in the LC's today. Even if they're not directly involved in that struggle, they're unintentionally being caught in the crossfire.