Shepherding Words "From The Co-Workers In The Lord's Recovery"

[Ohio]

Then LSM/DCP unleashes the full weight of their seasoned and fleshly tactics upon these little ones -- just two little whistle blowers calling out for justice -- calling on all their operatives to turn on them, throwing them under the bus, until one of them cracks under the pressure . . . then gloating, as if vindicated by the tragedy.

Ambition? And who has ever been as ambitious as those running LSM?

[Nuclear]

There's a new article up on shepherdingwords.com titled "Facts Concerning Lily Hsu." Thoughts?

[Freedom]

I don't think that it will ever be possible to know exactly what happened in China or which account of events is the most accurate. I've seen discussion in the past as to whether or not Lily Hsu's account was simply communist propaganda. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I wouldn't know.

That being said, it doesn't escape my notice that these articles being posted on shepherdingwords.com are all authored anonymously. This new article calls into question her credibility saying she didn't have first hand knowledge of everything. Well who is the one calling into question her credibility? Was this person also there? Does this person know for a fact that she didn't have first hand knowledge? If this person was there, why don't they attach their name to the article? Unless they have their own account of what happened in China, they are essentially doing what they accuse Lily Hsu of doing.

[Ohio]

Great points. When I first began to meet with the LC, I bought Angus Kinnear's biography of Nee, "Against the Tide." Immediately upon finding out, an elder told me not to read it, citing some 200 "major errors" in the book.

Says who? No list of errors was ever presented to me. The elder never read the book, and had no first hand knowledge of events, yet he -- with assurance -- willingly passed on what he heard about the book. And who alone could be the source of such a comment? Only W. Lee. How convenient! So only Lee could ever be the source of historical events in China.

Whether or not Dr. Lily Hsu is perfectly accurate on every detail is secondary to me. More important was the decision by the elders in Shanghai to discipline Nee in 1942, long before the Communist takeover. Since Nee had appointed these elders, and Shanghai was Nee's home church, does anybody in their right mind really believe Lee's account that Nee was wrongly disciplined for "living with his mother???"

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Whether or not Dr. Lily Hsu is perfectly accurate on every detail is secondary to me. More important was the decision by the elders in Shanghai to discipline Nee in 1942, long before the Communist takeover. Since Nee had appointed these elders, and Shanghai was Nee's home church, does anybody in their right mind really believe Lee's account that Nee was wrongly disciplined for "living with his mother???"

Yeah, I think understanding Nee and all the things that happened is mostly a matter of just connecting the dots. Even WL's own account of the happenings in China mentions things that would certainly raise eyebrows, and of course, he just glosses over that part of it.

Lily Hsu's account is inconvenient for the LC simply because it doesn't ignore the parts of history that WL told everyone to. Regarding Nee, WL stated "whether he is wrong or right is not my business." That's quite an alarming statement considering that he felt himself qualified to write a biography of Nee. It definitely calls his own credibility into question.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Yeah, I think understanding Nee and all the things that happened is mostly a matter of just connecting the dots. Even WL's own account of the happenings in China mentions things that would certainly raise eyebrows, and of course, he just glosses over that part of it.

Lily Hsu's account is inconvenient for the LC simply because it doesn't ignore the parts of history that WL told everyone to. Regarding Nee, WL stated "whether he is wrong or right is not my business." That's quite an alarming statement considering that he felt himself qualified to write a biography of Nee. It definitely calls his own credibility into question.

In the Midwest, we regularly heard similar comments from Titus Chu, e.g. "Brother Lee is my spiritual father, and his mistakes are none of my business." When it comes to the petty things of life, I totally agree, but what do we do when people get hurt? What do we do when crimes are committed?

One of the sisters who got hurt by Philip Lee was from the Cleveland area. In his account, John Ingalls recorded how TC flip-flopped on him overnight after being confronted by Team Lee. Read Ingalls account, "Visits From Titus Chu," dated late September 1988 in the book Speaking The Truth in Love.

For me, this calls TC's own credibility into question. We are not talking about petty things any more. Philip Lee hurt many people. John Ingalls and others came to their defense. Titus Chu tried sitting on the fence until he was forced to pick sides. Witness Lee attacked those ones who exposed the wrong doing at LSM. For whatever reason, TC suppressed his sense of indignation within, and sided with Lee. He then began to attack Ingall's credibility. I have a copy of that letter he wrote with Reetzke of Chicago.

Did TC really maintain his stand that "Brother Lee's mistakes are none of my business." I don't think so. TC made Lee's wrongs his own. TC's standing as a minister was thus compromised. It's no wonder that so many left him after the quarantines brought this past history to light.

Not only did Lee cover for Nee, but TC learned these same bad habits, and covered for Lee's serious failures. It did him no good in the end, however, since BP, RK, and company expelled him from their Recovery Men's Club.

[Nell]

Before I read Hsu's book I was a total skeptic. I couldn't believe that Nee would do such things. Lee & sons yes. Nee, NO!

The more I read, the more I began to think there might be something to it. Her writing style was matter-of-fact. No emotion. No bitterness. She just seemed to be writing what she knew and experienced. It was written in such a way that what she was saying was totally believable. No ranting and raving.

I don't know what she had to gain from telling her story, other than to clear her conscience which was stated in her book, as I recall. By the time I finished reading, I was sickened. Watchman Nee. Of all people. I guess its another lesson on putting people on a pedestal.

I've always believed that truth has a "ring" to it and you know it when you hear it. That bell rang for me when I read Hsu and I believe her story is true. I have long since looked for light and truth from Lee, et al. It's just not there. As for RK, if the light that is in his words be darkness...how great is that darkness.

Nell

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In the Midwest, we regularly heard similar comments from Titus Chu, e.g. "Brother Lee is my spiritual father, and his mistakes are none of my business." When it comes to the petty things of life, I totally agree, but what do we do when people get hurt? What do we do when crimes are committed?

One of the sisters who got hurt by Philip Lee was from the Cleveland area. In his account, John Ingalls recorded how TC flip-flopped on him overnight after being confronted by Team Lee. Read Ingalls account, "Visits From Titus Chu," dated late September 1988 in the book Speaking The Truth in Love.

For me, this calls TC's own credibility into question. We are not talking about petty things any more. Philip Lee hurt many people. John Ingalls and others came to their defense. Titus Chu tried sitting on the fence until he was forced to pick sides. Witness Lee attacked those ones who exposed the wrong doing at LSM. For whatever reason, TC suppressed his sense of indignation within, and sided with Lee. He then began to attack Ingall's credibility. I have a copy of that letter he wrote with Reetzke of Chicago.

Did TC really maintain his stand that "Brother Lee's mistakes are none of my business." I don't think so. TC made Lee's wrongs his own. TC's standing as a minister was thus compromised. It's no wonder that so many left him after the quarantines brought this past history to light.

Not only did Lee cover for Nee, but TC learned these same bad habits, and covered for Lee's serious failures. It did him no good in the end, however, since BP, RK, and company expelled him from their Recovery Men's Club.

When looking at the situation that the LC is presently confronted with, and how they are responding to it, credibility is really a key issue. Of course, the LC standard tactic is to attack other people's credibility. Anyone who speaks out against the LC has their credibility attacked. They have done it to Lily Hsu now. Their articles on Daystar and Max do the exact same thing.

Amid all the smoke and mirrors, the real question is the credibility of the LSM/DCP/blendeds. In my mind they have not established themselves as people who should be taken seriously. Those who read the articles on shearingwords.com will find all the same old nonsense that have been putting out for years.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Nuclear

There's a new article up on shepherdingwords.com titled "Facts Concerning Lily Hsu." Thoughts?

My main thought reading the article was "What an incomprehensible mess".

Also, "no one would ever describe this as 'shepherding' anyone".

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

My main thought reading the article was "What an incomprehensible mess".

Also, "no one would ever describe this as 'shepherding' anyone".

Trapped

Interesting comments.

Reminded me of the website LSM/DCP developed during the Midwest quarantines called "afaithfulword." It actually had nothing to do with God's faithful word. It was all about Lee's teachings.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ambition? And who has ever been as ambitious as those running LSM?

2004 when I met Bill and Barbara Mallon, I asked him if he was ambitious. After all that's what we were told why he left the local churches. Bill told me, if he was ambitious he would have stayed.
In recent years at one of the Puget Sound blending conferences Ron Kangas said he's "not going to step aside for anyone".
Who is the ambitious one?

[aron]

From the 'shepherding words' website: "one of [CCP] strategies to consolidate power was to launch “struggle campaigns” against real and perceived enemies and rivals. Mass rallies, mass media, and trained propagandists were used to stir up hatred toward “class enemies” that were to be eliminated. When sufficient fervency was produced, carefully scripted public accusation meetings and show trials were conducted to precipitate action against the state’s “enemies.” The strategy was successful in breaking down old loyalties, as neighbors, co-workers, and even family members accused one another of disloyalty to and crimes against the state."

A lot of people who made it out of the LR would recognise these tactics & methods. Ask Jane Anderson what it was like to participate in a show trial.

The 'SW' website sees the bias in the Communist Party, but they don't see their own partiality. Witness Lee's histories were just as suspect as Hsu's. Maybe moreso.

Jesus taught all this stuff, repeatedly. It's Christianity 101. You can see the splinter elsewhere but miss the beam lodged in you. Somehow, we thought Lee's "high peaks" obviated all that?

[Ohio]

Lee's "High Peaks" were diversionary. Merely theological propaganda to "launch 'struggle campaigns' against real perceived enemies and rivals," such as John Ingalls.

What would you choose? The messy and ugly facts of history, or the chance to become God?

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

A lot of people who made it out of the LR would recognise these tactics & methods. Ask Jane Anderson what it was like to participate in a show trial.

The 'SW' website sees the bias in the Communist Party, but they don't see their own partiality. Witness Lee's histories were just as suspect as Hsu's. Maybe moreso.

Yeah, it probably would be fair to say that any account coming from that time period in China should be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of it could very well have been propaganda. We know that WL's account was, because of his statement regarding Nee, which I noted in my last post: "whether he is wrong or right is not my business."

Everything that happened with Nee just raises too many unanswered questions (and we will never have the answers). So really, a defense of Nee when there are so many unknowns is inherently biased. It also should be noted that Lily Hsu's book is even titled to indicate that it is her own 'memories'. To me that has the implication that the book isn't intended to be an authoritative account of what happened. So when they (LSM/DCP) go and attack such a book as being not credible, what they are up to seems all the more suspect.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

2004 when I met Bill and Barbara Mallon, I asked him if he was ambitious. After all that's what we were told why he left the local churches. Bill told me, if he was ambitious he would have stayed.
In recent years at one of the Puget Sound blending conferences Ron Kangas said he's "not going to step aside for anyone".
Who is the ambitious one?

Like Romans 2.1 describes -- always accuse your enemies of what you are guilty of.

During the chaos of the "New Way," Bill Mallon exhorted the saints to return to the pure word of God. That supposedly was how the Recovery started, and supposedly a guiding principle for the ministry.

For that, he was accused of promoting the "tactics of the enemy." The Recovery faithful still believe this, especially in the SouthEast.