Wake-up Letter to Minoru

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

The last sentence of the post being considered says, "I've left for some time, and have come back recently. - a young working saint."

The person left for some time - now, we don't know this person's circumstances but most leave with disillusionment. What was promised never got delivered. So they go out, seeking the temporary comforts and distractions of the world.

So why do they return, to what didn't work the first time? Why re-imbibe the failed promises of old? I believe it is this: they want something "more", and know it's somehow connected to the God of the Bible, and remain convinced that LSM has the "proper interpretation" of that promise.

The perceived alternative is what many young people on this forum write of - giving up on God altogether. The assumption in both cases is that God is accessed only through LSM interpretation of scripture. Either it must be embraced in toto, or 'God' rejected altogether.

But many of us who've gone on to read the Bible apart from it's current pen-builders (we have God in our theological box) have come to see that these are false alternatives.

Leaving the LC is no easy feat. And that is just the beginning. One still has to decide what happens next, what they believe, and what they really want. It seems though that it can be difficult to really think that far ahead, especially when the primary concern is simply escaping the clutches of the LC, and sometimes even abusive situations.

All too often, I saw people in the LC who were amid a constant cycle of meeting and then not meeting. I saw church kids leave, only to get caught back in, pressured to attend the FTTA, etc. What drives people back? Is it because they don't know anything else? Probably so.

I don't see anything in the LC currently that would be a particular draw to make people want to be part of it. Of course, those who were there when the LC was in its heyday can point to such and such an experience that happened at Elden hall and they derive meaning from that. But what about all the rest of the LC members? What do they really have going for them? Unless someone has had particularly positive experiences within the LC, they are left trying to rationalize what the LC is not. And all too often it ends up being a situation where they stick around because they know nothing else, or they keep falling away and coming back because they think the problem is they can't measure up to the demands of the LC.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

All too often, I saw people in the LC who were amid a constant cycle of meeting and then not meeting. I saw church kids leave, only to get caught back in, pressured to attend the FTTA, etc. What drives people back? Is it because they don't know anything else? Probably so.

Young adults leave because the blessed life doesn't materialize, instead it's more demands for commitment. Eventually, they either come back because they've been deeply programmed to believe there's no alternative, or they give up on Christian hope altogether. In both cases they're shaped by the narrative from Lee and the Blendeds.

But the God of Jesus in the NT is different from the one taught by LSM. Jo Casteel's open letter agrees: when they read the Bible without LSM interpretation they realized that the God presented in scriptural text was fundamentally different from that presented by LSM.

In the Psalms, a pattern of NT citations emerged in front of me, and I started seeing that the Jesus presented in the NT was seen as the fulfillment of the promised [OT] Messiah, the Righteous One sent to rescue God's chosen people, to be the Saviour of the world and a light to the Gentiles, and likewise the God who raised Jesus from the dead, whom Jesus called "Our Father", seemed fundamentally apart from the "Processed Triune God" in "God's Economy".

If you look at Psalm 34, for example, it continually references the righteous v/v the wicked, their paths and their end. RecV footnotes dismiss this, saying there is none righteous, we're all depraved and justification is by faith alone. David, the author of this psalm, lied to Abimelech and pretended to be insane, said Lee, so David wasn't righteous. Case closed.

But the NT citation of Psalm 34 shows Jesus as the Righteous Man: "The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all; he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken" (vv19, 20; cf John 19).

A consistent and coherent pattern of textual referent emerged that I'd not seen when immersed in the LSM teachings. So I began to seek after Jesus there in the text, on the terms the text allowed. "Seek, and ye shall find", and "My sheep will hear my voice."

Here's a post from an "ex-Church Kid" who grew up in the LC programme, then FTTA, who's now functionally agnostic/atheist. Scroll down the Introductions section & you'll see quite a few in this vein.

Originally Posted by kappagamma

I was required to attend every Sunday, as well summer school of truths, conferences, and even semi-annuals when I was older. I lived in a sisters house a few years in college and attended FTT-Anaheim for two years. I would say that I was marginally in the CL until the FTT. It was there that most of the issues that I had came to the forefront and I, from that point, couldn't ignore it anymore and made my eventual (but quiet) exit. To me it was just another religion and, having been taught my whole life religion was bad... well, there you have it.

Minoru's conceit is that the ministry alone explains the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Jesus and Paul and James and John. But if you read the Bible, it isn't so. I used Psalms as an example, but others might use Numbers, or Isaiah... that if you subject LSM to the same scrutiny as everyone else got. you'll start to see the issues with their output, which is why critical thinking is forbidden with the group. Any critical examination of LSM doctrine is labeled as being "negative" or "poisoned" against leadership. So the young ones who left either think, "I couldn't make it" and they're doomed to outer darkness, or they can't stand the pressure and condemnation and just reject God in toto.

[Boxjobox]

This is actually the fundamental flaw in the whole "recovery" concept: A recovery of the church would first and foremost be a recovery and return to the vocabulary of the scriptures, apart from all the garbage that has been added over the centuries. Jesus and the apostles never presented the vocabulary WL presented. The speaking in the church should echo what is plainly taught in the NT. WL's speaking and writings present a different gospel- my recollection is that he even boasted of a new heavenly language and new light. The basic concept of gathering together as the church in a city, of not adding other divisive names, the priesthood of the saints, and the open fellowship, which were not of WL's origin were great- but then his LSM business with its warped concept of God and Christ corrupted the sweetness of the church, and the true fellowship of the saints. It was no longer are you a believer, but are you a 100% follower of WL and LSM.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

This is actually the fundamental flaw in the whole "recovery" concept: A recovery of the church would first and foremost be a recovery and return to the vocabulary of the scriptures, apart from all the garbage that has been added over the centuries. Jesus and the apostles never presented the vocabulary WL presented. The speaking in the church should echo what is plainly taught in the NT. WL's speaking and writings present a different gospel- my recollection is that he even boasted of a new heavenly language and new light. The basic concept of gathering together as the church in a city, of not adding other divisive names, the priesthood of the saints, and the open fellowship, which were not of WL's origin were great- but then his LSM business with its warped concept of God and Christ corrupted the sweetness of the church, and the true fellowship of the saints. It was no longer are you a believer, but are you a 100% follower of WL and LSM.

Initially WL behaved like so many other 60's ministers who saw the undeniably genuine move of the Spirit amidst the chaos and protests of Viet Nam and a few high profile assassinations. Much of the fruit of the "Jesus People Movement" had no desire to return to traditionally structured denominations. All sorts of new groups and congregations sprung up with a common theme -- return to the basic message of the N.T. -- a "recovery" of sorts.

With a Catholic background and a fresh salvation, I was particularly attracted to the message of "Christ, only Christ" and the promised return to the "pure word" of God in the church in Cleveburg, OH. Simultaneously many fresh translations came forth to replace the archaic wording of the KJV. With my new life and a living bible, I was ready to join the "real" body of Christ. Except for the outspoken hatred of all Christianity and brothers who wanted to run my life, the early church life was wonderful, and almost "normal."

As is often said by the power-hungry, "never let a good crisis go to waste," true to form WL used manufactured self-inflicted "storms" to slowly take over absolute control of all LC's. WL would use many other gifted brothers to build his empire, and went things went south, he would throw them under the bus. Thus every Recovery crisis would pass with WL appearing more exalted like some godman MOTA, and all the LC's forfeiting our liberties to him for his "protection" against these "ambitious" men out to deceive and "poison" us. WL had mastered these techniques in China and Taiwan and was ready to apply them to gullible Americans.

[Boxjobox]

I became a Christian in '74 and came to my 1st meeting of the LC in '76. Catholic background as well. I think WL started switching gears right around that time. An increase in LSM was an obvious decrease in the practice and blessing of the local assembly. Then by the 80's he really put the pedal to the metal and there was a departure of saints and some elders and a total sell out by others. I left in ''86. Can you imagine how all Christianity would have changed if the local church had remained local- with that local functionality? Instead, most Christian gatherings now are based on the pastoral business model, which also ripped off the Jesus people from great fellowship.

It's so unfortunate ones like Minoure don't recognize this fundamental flaw and minister to bring back the local church. It is high time for those in the LC lead to repent, turn and minister to bring back that which was from the beginning.. But it is hard to kick against the prods. They should have an old fashioned book burning and dump all their LSM material and count the cost of the materials. They should reject any control of LSM over the local assembly and return to scripture. The mere fact that they need to have "trainings" shows that the normal function of the local assembly has disappeared.. if there was a return to the practice of the local assembly, I think everyone would really receive A heavenly blessing (church in Philadelphia). Without this major repentance it is ludicrous to think there is going to be any blessing from God.

[Sons to Glory!]

The centralized command & control the LC began practicing is a natural result of the flesh. It's such a big irony with the LC, because they preached against it and its evils. You may be right, that is, if local autonomy was protected and practiced, there might have been a much bigger impact on Christendom! There were some very good practices (e.g., open and participative gatherings), but with the overt centralization (and a highly flawed one at that) it just looks like just another fleshly denomination vying for power.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

As is often said by the power-hungry, "never let a good crisis go to waste," true to form WL used manufactured self-inflicted "storms" to slowly take over absolute control of all LC's. WL would use many other gifted brothers to build his empire, and went things went south, he would throw them under the bus. Thus every Recovery crisis would pass with WL appearing more exalted like some godman MOTA, and all the LC's forfeiting our liberties to him for his "protection" against these "ambitious" men out to deceive and "poison" us. WL had mastered these techniques in China and Taiwan and was ready to apply them to gullible Americans.

I have been mulling this thought against the facts of history for several days, and to me it presents several frightening aspects of "Recovery" ministry.

First consider the foundational ideals of those in the US who initially espoused WL's ministry as a co-worker of WN: Local assembly/churches each governed by local elders seeking the Lord to best care for their members while rejecting established traditions, and faithfully adhering to the N.T. pattern in the word of God. Localism without headquarters, eldership without hierarchy, all the saints functioning by the Spirit, centered on Christ, only Christ -- all watchwords for the blossoming movement.

How did we get from there to here? Was it normal evolution, chance happenings, or an orchestrated plan of events? How did the members and local leaders agree to these monumental changes? Did we all just go along willingly?

Here's what's troubling me. The pattern I'm seeing is the same one used by organized crime. Simply stated, goons are sent into "local" businesses and in the aftermath of the resulting dangerous chaos, "protections" from these same people are then promised in exchange for "local" assets and their liberties. In the resulting state of fear, this is then justified as the "cost of doing business."

Study both the "Max" and "Ingalls" rebellions, and I cannot arrive at any other conclusion. Did not WL effectively use the tactics of organized crime to transform the entire movement from an "Antioch Principle" local movement to a "Jerusalem Principle" high-control headquartered movement? Comments?

[Boxjobox]

We used to say "so & so doesn't 'see' the church". Meaning, apart from all the history and movements in Christianity over 1900 years, there was still that thing " the church" and "the churches". Local assemblies of believers, gathering together as the called out ones, loving the Lord, the truth, the saints, fellowshipping together, growing in grace, keeping the word, breaking bread, etc., under the leadership of elders in the local assembly who understood and saw this. WL did a good job "recovering" this, and the saints seemed to flourish. Then we were introduced to a different side of WL- the businessman who saw a golden opportunity. His business rode on the back of the churches "vision" and in no small feat, put them all under the yolk of LSM. So the one who introduced meeting with no name took on a name and we can see, he himself lost the "vision". I say no small feat, because the elders and the saints should have whole heartedly rejected such a move. As we all know, some did, and we know the history of the whole fiasco.

Still, that "vision" of the church and the churches still exists, and still needs to be "recovered". I mean, what is the alternative? The pastoral business model of Christians filing into an auditorium and watching a pastoral performance, and a midweek bible study? No Thank You!.

You would think ones like Minoru would wake up from the LSM nightmare shake off the disgusting error and repent of the error. Elders in lthe LCs should do the same: Dump the whole LSM entrapment and return to the scriptures and the "vision".

[Boxjobox]

I started reading a secular book written in the late 60's called Power, author A Berle. He talks about the history of power- men ruling over men, positions, organization, use and misuse, rise to power, fall from power, gravitating to power, why people submit to power, what people get out of power etc.
Our Lord, Jesus, talked quite a bit about how the church was to be ruled, and the church structure related to power: the key elements seem to be humility, love, and serving. Sure signs of wrong church leadership are mistreating saints, love of money, love of position. Nicolaitianism was something Jesus hates! Yet all of this is what governs the LSM/LC enterprise.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

We used to say "so & so doesn't 'see' the church". Meaning, apart from all the history and movements in Christianity over 1900 years, there was still that thing " the church" and "the churches". Local assemblies of believers, gathering together as the called out ones, loving the Lord, the truth, the saints, fellowshipping together, growing in grace, keeping the word, breaking bread, etc., under the leadership of elders in the local assembly who understood and saw this. WL did a good job "recovering" this, and the saints seemed to flourish. Then we were introduced to a different side of WL- the businessman who saw a golden opportunity. His business rode on the back of the churches "vision" and in no small feat, put them all under the yolk of LSM. So the one who introduced meeting with no name took on a name and we can see, he himself lost the "vision". I say no small feat, because the elders and the saints should have whole heartedly rejected such a move. As we all know, some did, and we know the history of the whole fiasco.

Still, that "vision" of the church and the churches still exists, and still needs to be "recovered". I mean, what is the alternative? The pastoral business model of Christians filing into an auditorium and watching a pastoral performance, and a midweek bible study? No Thank You!.

You would think ones like Minoru would wake up from the LSM nightmare shake off the disgusting error and repent of the error. Elders in lthe LCs should do the same: Dump the whole LSM entrapment and return to the scriptures and the "vision".

Actually J.N Darby “recovered” what you described https://bibletruthpublishers.com/chu...ical-4/la62754. Watchman Nee copied him. Witness Lee copied him. And, after much success they all ruined it by trying to force their ministries on the churches.

Boxjobox have you checked out one body.life, read any of Henry Hon’s books, or attended one of the events organized by one body.life? Henry Hon suggests a way forward for Christians looking for the assembly where “each one has” in his book One Ekklesia and often speaks about that at one body.life events. I’ve met a few saints from So Cal at those events you might want to connect with.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have been mulling this thought against the facts of history for several days, and to me it presents several frightening aspects of "Recovery" ministry.

First consider the foundational ideals of those in the US who initially espoused WL's ministry as a co-worker of WN: Local assembly/churches each governed by local elders seeking the Lord to best care for their members while rejecting established traditions, and faithfully adhering to the N.T. pattern in the word of God. Localism without headquarters, eldership without hierarchy, all the saints functioning by the Spirit, centered on Christ, only Christ -- all watchwords for the blossoming movement.

How did we get from there to here? Was it normal evolution, chance happenings, or an orchestrated plan of events? How did the members and local leaders agree to these monumental changes? Did we all just go along willingly?

Here's what's troubling me. The pattern I'm seeing is the same one used by organized crime. Simply stated, goons are sent into "local" businesses and in the aftermath of the resulting dangerous chaos, "protections" from these same people are then promised in exchange for "local" assets and their liberties. In the resulting state of fear, this is then justified as the "cost of doing business."

Study both the "Max" and "Ingalls" rebellions, and I cannot arrive at any other conclusion. Did not WL effectively use the tactics of organized crime to transform the entire movement from an "Antioch Principle" local movement to a "Jerusalem Principle" high-control headquartered movement? Comments?

Ohio, I think the reason you see a pattern is because the same guy is driving both vehicles, namely, Satan. Same driver, same patterns of behavior, same old story. I see so many similarities in behavior when I contrast the unsaved with the local churchers. The unsaved (the whole world, in fact) lie in the wicked one, and it is impossible to discern any difference between the lack of love there(think shunning) and the lack of love and shunning the LCers dish out. I see patterns and similarities wherever that devil works, even if there is no blatant connection.....

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Ohio, I think the reason you see a pattern is because the same guy is driving both vehicles, namely, Satan. Same driver, same patterns of behavior, same old story. I see so many similarities in behavior when I contrast the unsaved with the local churchers. The unsaved (the whole world, in fact) lie in the wicked one, and it is impossible to discern any difference between the lack of love there(think shunning) and the lack of love and shunning the LCers dish out. I see patterns and similarities wherever that devil works, even if there is no blatant connection.....

Yes - Satan corresponding to our flesh. In many respects he's sort of a "one-trick pony" in that his approach is generally the same over and over. Even in Eden, it was the allure of pride in being able to see, do and control things apart from God. Pride strongly entered into the LC.

No matter how good something appears - think TLR in the 60s - if there's any opening for the enemy, then the flesh will rise up to take control. And the stronger the move of the Lord, the more the enemy will seek to control it. The speed at which this happened in the LC, however, is truly astounding!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Ohio, I think the reason you see a pattern is because the same guy is driving both vehicles, namely, Satan. Same driver, same patterns of behavior, same old story. I see so many similarities in behavior when I contrast the unsaved with the local churchers. The unsaved (the whole world, in fact) lie in the wicked one, and it is impossible to discern any difference between the lack of love there(think shunning) and the lack of love and shunning the LCers dish out. I see patterns and similarities wherever that devil works, even if there is no blatant connection.....

Perhaps you are right, byHismercy.

The Bible also points out the fallen nature, even in church leaders, of those not guided by either the word of God, the Spirit of God, the love of God, or the headship of Christ.

It is sad to see this same pattern in the unsaved, as you mentioned, but is doubly sad to see this in church leaders. The apostle Paul faced this same battle during his entire ministry, and thank the Lord much of that was recorded, otherwise we all might be stumbled seeing this for the first time in those who were supposed to "watch over our souls." (Heb 13.17)

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

Jesus and the apostles never presented the vocabulary WL presented. The speaking in the church should echo what is plainly taught in the NT. WL's speaking and writings present a different gospel — my recollection is that he even boasted of a new heavenly language and new light.

All strange incense and strange music. An abomination. Man's attempt to please God in a manner that He never ordained.