LGBTQ, in LC and Beyond.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Just a side note, before Adam and Eve discovered their nakedness, I’m wondering if they had genetalia to begin with, especailly since procreation was not in God’s interest until AFTER the fall. And were Adam and Eve like innicent children who did not know what sex was? or did they romp around in the Garden of Eden not knowing what they were doing? Why did they hide from God? was it because they were naughty and found out what their sexual organs were for? These are a lot of unanswered questions.

And Awareness, if you do indeed start your own website, there may be some lgbtq brothers and sisters and second generation church kids who may join who have previously visited this site but did not feel safe posting on here. For now, they are in this secret facebook group that I am in and there and there are about 20 of them, and I have talked to at least seven of them. I wonder if same sex attractions are immoral, why are there so many of us?

After God created both Adam and Eve, Genesis 2:24-25 says:

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

The uniting and the one flesh is sex. It seems to me that God was interested in procreation before the fall (which didn't occur until Genesis 3:6), so they would have had genitalia before the fall.

They hid from God because they disobeyed Him. Any kid who's disobeyed their parents and got caught knows why they hid!

The shame they felt from their nakedness can be interpreted many ways, and has been. I guess there are two parts to it: shame before each other, and shame before God.

The shame before each other is interesting, given they were a couple, and couples see each other naked. Although I've never discussed it with anyone, I personally concluded that since the sinful fallen nature would be passed on to the human race through procreative sex, that's why the nakedness became shameful -- because it was tied to what would be the cascading devastating effects of the fall. That's just my own thoughts though.

The shame before God is so interesting too. Adam and Eve did what the leadership in the LC does in the face of sin - covered themselves up in an attempt to hide their sin. But that's not what God is about. God wants us to turn to Him with our sin and shame so He can be the one to cover us in a way better than we ever could, which is exactly what He did with Adam and Eve.

People who identify as LGB or T account for approximately 5% of the U.S. population.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

People who identify as LGB or T account for approximately 5% of the U.S. population.

Wow that is around 16 million Americans! And if you look at UCLA’s statistics, among millenials, it’s nearly 25 percent. Is it because society is more accepting of them to report higher numbers, cultural influences on shame, or nature/nurture?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Wow that is around 16 million Americans! And if you look at UCLA’s statistics, among millenials, it’s nearly 25 percent. Is it because society is more accepting of them to report higher numbers, cultural influences on shame, or nature/nurture?

Do you mean that of those who identify as LGBT, 25% of them are millennials? Or do you mean that of the U.S. millennial age bracket, 25% of U.S. millennials identify as LGBT?

College students do and say a lot of things they regret later on. Drinking, passing out drunk, drugs, sex they regret in the morning, hazing, driving recklessly over 100 mph, making out with people they wouldn't otherwise, getting naked in public pools, trying out lesbian/gay relationships, throwing caution to the wind. And then they wake up after college and say "Oops. I didn't have my head on straight." I can think of examples of almost all those I just gave -- and all within corporate living in a local church context! Are they doing those things anymore now that they are adults? Nope, not one of them. College students aren't bastions of reason and level-headed thinking.

If the 25% statistic remains and progresses through the age brackets as those millennials get older, then I would say that statistic gives us more to sink our teeth into.

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I wonder if same sex attractions are immoral, why are there so many of us?

I also want to revisit briefly the logic behind this statement of yours. My comments here are not regarding the morality or immorality of same sex attractions, but just the logic of your statement.

Prevalence of something does not determine its morality. There are over 2 million people in prison right now. That's a lot! But it doesn't make what they've done (steal, prostitute young girls, murder, rape, commit fraud, grand theft auto, burglary, etc) moral.

Note, I'm not comparing same sex attractions to criminal acts. I'm just trying to show you that the logic of your conclusion does not hold up. We can use a less horrible sounding example if it helps. Almost 40% of Americans are obese. That's over 70 million people. It's a staggering number. Does that make obesity normal, healthy, good, something to attain to? Of course not. Prevalence of something doesn't determine it's rightness or wrongness.

I just want to make sure we are handling the discussion with a common and basic level of logic.

Again - I'm not comparing LGBT to crimes or to obesity. I'm not commenting on the morality of it. I'm only concerned with the leap of logic, and used those things as examples to show the logic in that one statement doesn't hold. Thanks.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

If the 25% statistic remains and progresses through the age brackets as those millennials get older, then I would say that statistic gives us more to sink our teeth into.

I also want to revisit briefly the logic behind this statement of yours. My comments here are not regarding the morality or immorality of same sex attractions.

Oh I think it will. 90 percent of all lgbtq I’ve encountered havent changed their orientation in a decade and I havent changed my whole life.

And I know, just comparing it to heterosexuality, there’s many but is it moral?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

And I know, just comparing it to heterosexuality, there’s many but is it moral?

I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here. Can you rephrase the question?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here. Can you rephrase the question?

Like I have to come to question standards of morality. If homosexuals are to be jusged for their behaviors, then heterosexuals with divorces, cheating, incest, pedophilia, etc should also be questioned regarding whether these behaviors are appropriate and healthy.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Like I have to come to question standards of morality. If homosexuals are to be jusged for their behaviors, then heterosexuals with divorces, cheating, incest, pedophilia, etc should also be questioned regarding whether these behaviors are appropriate and healthy.

Okay, sure, that seems pretty straightforward. Do you come across many people who think divorces, cheating, incest, pedophilia, etc, are appropriate and healthy for heterosexuals though? I don't know of anyone who has said that here on the forum, and as I'm thinking about it, I don't know of anyone even in my LIFE who has said anything like that! Are there debates and disagreements out there that these things are healthy??

Everyone is judged by their behaviors, homosexual or heterosexual, or other. The question is, what is the standard by which people are judged? That's part of what my question a few posts ago to you about where you get your morality from was about. We are ultimately talking about differing (not better, not worse, just different) standards.