LGBTQ, in LC and Beyond.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Christianity had a long history of discrimination?" -- This is your response? So did Aborigines, Native Americans, First Nation peoples. Every group of people who ever lived have a long history of discrimination against gay and lesbians. You then need to judge the entire world. Why just judge Christians of old? Christians and Judeo-Christian Western societies have taken the lead in protecting gays and lesbians. Why don't you acknowledge their help?

Neither did you answer how many in the gay and lesbian community have voiced their disagreement with the demands of transgenders. For example, trans athletes are beginning to destroy women's sports. All of the Title Nine gains might be wiped out eventually. Many are concluding that male and female sports can no longer be segregated, and unisex sports are the logical conclusion. Even gay and lesbian supporters are starting to realize the incredibly dangerous ramifications that trans people impose upon society.

There is no military in the history of the world which has accepted trans recruits for obvious reasons. You need to rethink this position. The US military is not a social experiment. I disagree that the entire society should be forced to change in order to accommodate those who don't like their own body. This is not discrimination!

"Covert name calling?" O my, are you sensitive. I am only addressing ideas and concepts here. It is merely a normal response to wild ideas to say, "what planet are you from?"

Not the entire world. In ancient times, there was acceptance among the Romans and Greeks for homosexual relations and among some Native American communities, the trans people were treated with respect and revered as shamans and “two-spirited”. Buddhist and Taoist religions don’t care much about someone’s sexual orientation. We need to acknowlege the hurt LGBTQ peeps have recieved from Christianity because it’s the same thing as disregarding how Europeans massacred and took away Native American lands, or brushing African American slavery under the rug. Please define “Christians of old”. Are you inquiring about the Roman Catholics, Pre-Augustine times, New Testament times or old Testament times.

I’m not sure where you are getting your sources from, but I have plenty of trans friends and I dont mind their “ramifications”, whether it’d be in sports or usage of bathrooms. The Chinese military and Vikings had women generals and warriors. What difference does it make if they are all fighting on the same side? Laws change base on societal standards and changes. Thus, the entire history of humankind has been one giant social experiment.

And thank you, I’m just being culturally sensitive.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Not the entire world. In ancient times, there was acceptance among the Romans and Greeks for homosexual relations and among some Native American communities, the trans people were treated with respect and revered as shamans and “two-spirited”. Buddhist and Taoist religions don’t care much about someone’s sexual orientation. We need to acknowlege the hurt LGBTQ peeps have recieved from Christianity because it’s the same thing as disregarding how Europeans massacred and took away Native American lands, or brushing African American slavery under the rug. Please define “Christians of old”. Are you inquiring about the Roman Catholics, Pre-Augustine times, New Testament times or old Testament times.

I’m not sure where you are getting your sources from, but I have plenty of trans friends and I dont mind their “ramifications”, whether it’d be in sports or usage of bathrooms. The Chinese military and Vikings had women generals and warriors. What difference does it make if they are all fighting on the same side? Laws change base on societal standards and changes. Thus, the entire history of humankind has been one giant social experiment.

And thank you, I’m just being culturally sensitive.

No, you are definitely not culturally sensitive.

If there ever was a movement to destroy the US, this would be it. And I definitely disagree with your distorted versions of Christian and American history. Since China has become the "most successful economic and socio-political" country today, after dealing so well with the Covid pandemic, please take your innovative ideas to their country in order to test them out before bringing them here.

What? China won't take them? Maybe Russia? No? How about Cuba? Venezuela? There must be lots of other "progressive socialist" countries out there that I'm sure you would like a whole lot better than this awful USA with its terrible Christians.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No, you are definitely not culturally sensitive.

If there ever was a movement to destroy the US, this would be it. And I definitely disagree with your distorted versions of Christian and American history. Since China has become the "most successful economic and socio-political" country today, after dealing so well with the Covid pandemic, please take your innovative ideas to their country in order to test them out before bringing them here.

What? China won't take them? Maybe Russia? No? How about Cuba? Venezuela? There must be lots of other "progressive socialist" countries out there that I'm sure you would like a whole lot better than this awful USA with its terrible Christians.

Homsexuals have existed throughout history and we have not distroyed history, whatever that means. Think about the Holocaust and how homosexuals were rounded up too and thrown in the incinerators. Thinking that you are afraid with gays and lesbians destroying America speaks more about you and your privilege. I’m not going to engage with you anymore. Any retorts or answers will be met with my silence. Be civilized like Trapped and Sons of Glory.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Homsexuals have existed throughout history and we have not distroyed history, whatever that means. Think about the Holocaust and how homosexuals were rounded up too and thrown in the incinerators. Thinking that you are afraid with gays and lesbians destroying America speaks more about you and your privilege. I’m not going to engage with you anymore. Any retorts or answers will be met with my silence. Be civilized like Trapped and Sons of Glory.

I have been speaking about trans people. Why are you changing the subject to gays and lesbians. I'm sure you know the difference.

My discussions have been entirely civil. I am only asking you to respond to issues which other gays and lesbians also have. I mentioned the open letter by J K Rowling et. al. but you ignored that.

You cannot come here and promote your agenda unless you are willing to discuss. This is a Discussion Forum. I have some very serious concerns about the trans movement. Society has never confronted this before.

I am shocked that you would bring up this topic and then attempt to censure or censor me.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have been speaking about trans people. Why are you changing the subject to gays and lesbians. I'm sure you know the difference.

My discussions have been entirely civil. I am only asking you to respond to issues which other gays and lesbians also have. I mentioned the open letter by J K Rowling et. al. but you ignored that.

You cannot come here and promote your agenda unless you are willing to discuss. This is a Discussion Forum. I have some very serious concerns about the trans movement. Society has never confronted this before.

I am shocked that you would bring up this topic and then attempt to censure or censor me.

Because JK rowling have nothing to do with lgbtq. And I already stated my opinions regarding trans people in previous posts. I have the right to answer what I feel appropriate or needs answering to, because I have limited knowledge just like you. Maybe someone else can answer in regards to the trans movement, but based on personal experiences, and I will reiterate, with the “trans movement”, not all trans people are involved in this so called movement, they are not in sports. Just like not all heterosexuals have the same views, politically or are in same “movements”. Why do you think I am promoting an “agenda”? I dont even have a planner. It’s time for society to confront it. Like slavery, back then, it would have been new and nothing they have ever seen.
You were deligitimizing my relationship by insensitive questions of whether I would be loyal to my wife? or if the other member’s partner is indeed a male or female. I dont ask you about your marriage so stay out of mine and her relationship. Thanks

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

You were deligitimizing my relationship by insensitive questions of whether I would be loyal to my wife? or if the other member’s partner is indeed a male or female. I dont ask you about your marriage so stay out of mine and her relationship. Thanks

Oh my, are you sensitive! I'm only trying to discuss issues here bringing up diversities you may not be aware of.

I'm not delegitimizing your relationship. It was you who brought up the subject. But, think about if the roles were reversed here. I have been married to my wife for decades. What if my wife overheard a comment I made that "I am bi, I like guys too." Would not that seriously undermine our marriage? Delegitimize our relationship? Perhaps my "serenity" might take a turn for the worse.

Seriously though, how can you call your spouse your "wife," when "she" was born a boy? I'm not the only one who has trouble understanding this. I'm just trying to work thru this.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh my, are you sensitive! I'm only trying to discuss issues here bringing up diversities you may not be aware of.

I'm not delegitimizing your relationship. It was you who brought up the subject. But, think about if the roles were reversed here. I have been married to my wife for decades. What if my wife overheard a comment I made that "I am bi, I like guys too." Would not that seriously undermine our marriage? Delegitimize our relationship? Perhaps my "serenity" might take a turn for the worse.

Seriously though, how can you call your spouse your "wife," when "she" was born a boy? I'm not the only one who has trouble understanding this. I'm just trying to work thru this.

1. You have a misconception that bisexuals can only be attracted to either men or women at a time. Bisexuals are actually attracted to men and women simultaneously. I believe that your thought process is that if the "options" available to an individual are more or less doubled, than the likelihood of that person losing interest in their partner will increase; this notion is deeply flawed and may or may not reflect on your own character/commitment to your own partner. I would look into that if I were you. If your wife would feel insecure about you being attracted to both men and women, that's more reflective of trust issues in your relationship rather than issues from a person's sexuality.

If a person is in a deeply committed relationship (ie marriage), then it doesn't matter how many alternatives there are available to a person, regardless of their sexuality. If that person is truly a person of integrity, then if they are in a deeply committed, monogamous relationship, they will stay true to their partner.

================================

2. How are you having trouble understanding that her wife is a wife? Genitalia at birth only determines that person's assigned sex, not their gender identity. To clarify, some quick terminology:
- male/female - sex terms related to genitalia assigned at birth (male = penis, etc)
- man/woman - gender terms based on subjective identity (man = identifies as a man, etc)

Thus, if their wife was originally born with a male sex assignment, but they identify as a woman, they are inherently a woman regardless of their biology. This identity is not a choice, it is something that manifests as the person's sense of self-awareness and identity forms. If you believe it is a choice, please ask yourself when you chose to stay the gender that correlated with your assigned sex at birth. If you can't figure out the rough date you made that choice, then sit down because you just discovered that it's not a choice.

Referring to a trans woman as the gender identity that correlates with their originally assigned sex is extremely disrespectful, as you are denying that person's autonomy and sense of self in leu of your own, narrow-minded worldview. To illustrate how disrespectful that behavior is, let's imagine you introduce yourself by name to someone, but that person refuses to you accept the name you introduce yourself with because in their mind, you look like a Bob instead of [insert your name here]. So regardless of how much you try to have that person address you by your name, which is something you can legally change to match your self-identity, they call you the name they think suits you best when they don't know anything about you. Don't you think that's disrespectful behavior? That's exactly what you're doing to this person's wife. Stop it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh my, are you sensitive! I'm only trying to discuss issues here bringing up diversities you may not be aware of.

I'm not delegitimizing your relationship. It was you who brought up the subject. But, think about if the roles were reversed here. I have been married to my wife for decades. What if my wife overheard a comment I made that "I am bi, I like guys too." Would not that seriously undermine our marriage? Delegitimize our relationship? Perhaps my "serenity" might take a turn for the worse.

Seriously though, how can you call your spouse your "wife," when "she" was born a boy? I'm not the only one who has trouble understanding this. I'm just trying to work thru this.

SerenityLives never said her wife is a transwoman, not that it would matter if she was.

I'm the one whose girlfriend is a transwoman. We've been dating for one year minus 2 days. One of the anonymous posters.

[clever sister]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have been speaking about trans people. Why are you changing the subject to gays and lesbians. I'm sure you know the difference.

My discussions have been entirely civil. I am only asking you to respond to issues which other gays and lesbians also have. I mentioned the open letter by J K Rowling et. al. but you ignored that.

You cannot come here and promote your agenda unless you are willing to discuss. This is a Discussion Forum. I have some very serious concerns about the trans movement. Society has never confronted this before.

I am shocked that you would bring up this topic and then attempt to censure or censor me.

You seem very interested in the internal politics of the LGBT+ community.

If you must know, some radical feminists who view men as the "enemy" have decided that transwomen are actually just men in dresses trying to get access to women's spaces for nefarious purposes, even though the evidence does not show this to be the case at all. JK Rowling has for many years been suspected of sharing these viewpoints and recently confirmed that she does.

Did not know you were so eager to support the views of a "Wiccan".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by clever sister

You seem very interested in the internal politics of the LGBT+ community.

If you must know, some radical feminists who view men as the "enemy" have decided that transwomen are actually just men in dresses trying to get access to women's spaces for nefarious purposes, even though the evidence does not show this to be the case at all. JK Rowling has for many years been suspected of sharing these viewpoints and recently confirmed that she does.

Did not know you were so eager to support the views of a "Wiccan".

I don't support Wiccan religion, but even this radical feminist has serious concerns about the trans movement. She is not alone either. I only supported her ideas in this open letter. Is there some law that says I cannot agree with her when her concerns match my own?

Society has become upside down. Of course there will be trans women who want to "get access to women's spaces for nefarious purposes." Why not? There are numerous reasons for this. I already mentioned sports. Athletes born male have many advantages over athletes born female in many high dollar sports. One of my sons claims he could have been a sports legend had he been able to play basketball as a trans woman.

Think about other "nefarious purposes" we have seen regarding race. We had a presidential candidate who rose to academic and political prominence claiming to be Native American. We have had numerous people who have transitioned into African Americans for personal gain. Why would they do such a thing if hatred and racism was so prevalent in America. Obviously it is not. Being part of some identity intersectionality, whether race, gay, trans, or better yet all three, has definite perks, or they would not be doing so.

It is not LGBT "internal politics" that concerns me. Obviously the recent SCOTUS ruling tells us that these are not "internal politics," but have an impact on all of us.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is not LGBT "internal politics" that concerns me. Obviously the recent SCOTUS ruling tells us that these are not "internal politics," but have an impact on all of us.

Hey bro Ohio, I take it you're talking about legalizing same sex marriage.

I haven't been impacted by it in the least. If I have, it's all been good and happy. Those in a same sex marriage that I've known, were very happy. Prolly even, and I can't say with any degree certainty, happier than your marriage. I know this by my own experience and comparison. SerenityLives and her lucky partner couldn't be any happier.

But you don't seem to be close enough to such encounters to understand. So I'm very curious, please explain, you seem to think same sex marriage is destroying America, so how has same sex marriage actually impacted you?