LGBTQ, in LC and Beyond.

[Sons to Glory!]

See my responses below.

Originally Posted by awareness

STG, so now not only can we not trust our heart, nor trust our understanding, but love has been reduced to just feelings. Scripture (as cited) says we can't trust our hearts and shouldn't lean to our own understanding. The Bible speaks of three kinds of love, right? Bios - physical, phileo - of the soul and agape - unconditional (God's love). We shouldn't confuse these.

Goodness brother. Do you have a wife or girlfriend? If so, if you share this with either one you're not going keep them. Huh? Refer to above response.

Love is the highest need in our life. Paul says if we have not love we're just a clanging cymbal. AMEN!

Or are you saying gays can't love? Nope - not saying that. (I wonder where you got that from what I wrote.)

Take a look at this:
https://rmnetwork.org/newrmn/wp-cont...16-reduced.pdf
Thanks for sharing.

Look, we may be shooting past each other on this conversation. To me it seems like you're trying to set up a strawman argument with things I have not said. Let's not do that, okay?

Love is the foundation of all God does toward us, and therefore should be the foundation we have with one another. I see the gay thing as sin, but some on here see it as normal and even God's design. I don't see it that way and see it as another fruit of the flesh, period. We all manifest fruits of the flesh and all need love and forgiveness. But if someone doesn't see gayness as sin, then they don't think they need to seek forgiveness or that there's anything harmful there that they need to seek God after. We will all stand at the Bema Seat and hope we are not surprised (me included).

I don't think my view is complicated, is it?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

See my responses below.

I don't think my view is complicated, is it?

Brother, it's clear you mean well. But you are on the LGBT thread. So saying the heart can't be trusted, and don't lean on your own understanding, and love is just a feeling, seems to be an attack on gays.

But I'm doing wrong, and we're doing wrong.

SerentyLives intended this thread to hopefully reach out to gays in the LC, not for us to argue about it.

She now thinks this thread is a failure, and wants it closed and deleted, thanks to us.

But I need to talk to her first.

And for the record, I think you are a sweet brother.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother, it's clear you mean well. But you are on the LGBT thread. So saying the heart can't be trusted, and don't lean on your own understanding, and love is just a feeling, seems to be an attack on gays.

But I'm doing wrong, and we're doing wrong.

SerentyLives intended this thread to hopefully reach out to gays in the LC, not for us to argue about it.

She now thinks this thread is a failure, and wants it closed and deleted, thanks to us.

But I need to talk to her first.

And for the record, I think you are a sweet brother.

Sorry . . . it's a sensitive issue and not always easy to have effective communication regarding it.

[awareness]

And brother StG, our fleshly skin is the largest organ of the body. So if we go against the flesh we're denying what we're made of, and insulting what God called good.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother, it's clear you mean well. But you are on the LGBT thread. So saying the heart can't be trusted, and don't lean on your own understanding, and love is just a feeling, seems to be an attack on gays.

But I'm doing wrong, and we're doing wrong.

SerentyLives intended this thread to hopefully reach out to gays in the LC, not for us to argue about it.

She now thinks this thread is a failure, and wants it closed and deleted, thanks to us.

But I need to talk to her first.

And for the record, I think you are a sweet brother.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I take serious issue with this thread being deleted AGAIN. I and others have poured time as well as serious thought into it, and, I'm not joking, hours of walking around in agony considering how to respond in the most compassionate way. I have numerous drafts still in limbo as I've tried to squeeze some time in during the week after work to respond to the many responses posted this week.

Let me remind everyone what the original post of this thread said:

Hello all, I am representing all the queerfolk, trans, bisexual, basically lgbtqia, since the last one landed in a disaster. and I would like to form a civilized discussion. No name calling etc. So what are ex-LC members experience with those they know who have left the church due to their own or friends/ family members’ different sexuality and gender identity issues? and what are you guys’ stance on this hot topic.

This has been as civilized a discussion as you can hope given the topic, as well as some of the awkwardness inherent in the subject, and any failures in keeping it civilized have come from both sides.

Everyone has provided their stance on the "hot topic", just as requested -- there is nothing to delete here. To come on a largely Christian forum and ask for a discussion on a contentious topic and then repeatedly delete the entire history of it because you don't like the responses that were totally in-line with everything you asked for, is beyond frustrating, as well as disrespectful to those participating.

There is no "thanks to us". Don't throw that at the people who complied with the original post. The "thanks to us" belongs to SerenityLives who wants anything that handles this topic logically and rationally deleted from existence.

I DEALT WITH YOU CALLING GOD GAY AND JESUS HOMOSEXUAL AND I DIDN'T ONCE ASK FOR THE THREAD TO BE DELETED.

I personally think there is a lot of value in what has been written not only from the "side" or perspective I hold, but also in all the experiences, articles, thoughts, feelings, points of view, and responses from the pro-LGBTQ lifestyle side. Someone on the LGBTQ side may come onto this thread and get tremendous help from those who are in favor of it.

The heart CAN'T be trusted, we are NOT to lean on our own understanding. That's not an "attack on the gays". That's the truth of God's word no matter what the topic.

And for heaven's sake, no one here "hates the gays" as you keep claiming. I don't know how many more times I need to say, both from my perspective, as well as what the Word says, that it's the sexual act that is the issue. That's it. NO ONE HERE "HATES THE GAYS", SO STOP MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS.

Leave this thread be.

[Sons to Glory!]

I agree and amen every single statement in Trapped's last post! And "me too" regarding "I and others have poured time as well as serious thought into it, and, I'm not joking, hours of walking around in agony considering how to respond in the most compassionate way."

Very well said.

[Ohio]

I too agree with Trapped's many excellent points here.

If anything, I am disappointed with awareness's posts. Instead of moderating or mediating beneficial discussion, he at times sowed controversy by throwing gasoline into many of his posts. Knowing this subject was so sensitive, awareness should have endeavored to facilitate the OP's opening remarks. Instead he lobbed many obnoxious insults, like hand grenades, into the discussion based on his own biases against God, Jesus, Bible, and Christians.

I did not think that some of his posts fairly represented Serenity et. al. Instead of blaming others for the thread, perhaps he could reconsider his own role.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I am disappointed with awareness's posts. Instead of moderating or mediating beneficial discussion, he at times sowed controversy by throwing gasoline into many of his posts.

My observation too. I found myself hoping SerenityLives (et. al. in LGBTQ+ community) would comment on things instead of awareness, because his gasoline was creating fires that maybe didn't even need to be there in the first place . . .

So an OP can request a thread be deleted, and it will be, as a matter of forum policy?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

My observation too. I found myself hoping SerenityLives (et. al. in LGBTQ+ community) would comment on things instead of awareness, because his gasoline was creating fires that maybe didn't even need to be there in the first place . . .

So an OP can request a thread be deleted, and it will be, as a matter of forum policy?

Hello everyone, I hope you guys would stop fighting. It is not my intention for this thread to be deleted, just closed. I have reached out to many of our ex LC lgbtq brothers and sisters and some of them take a look at this thread and told me personally that they feel too stressed to post. As to the few that did, I applaud them for their bravery and commitment. I also applaud all of your commitment to this thread. I believe awareness did not intend to throw any bombshells if it seems that way, he contributed a lot of ideas that were pro-lgbtq that moved the thread forward. At this point, I just feel the thread should be closed for the benefit of everyone. If anyone has anything else to say, nows the time to do so and then afterwards, UntoHim can close the thread. Personally, this thread was a lot more civil than the other, even though I did get angry sometimes at some of the conversations that came up, it wasnt nearly as bad as the other one with awareness taking more of a role stepping in and moderating.
I hope you guys all find peace. I am amazed at the amount of time you guys put in despite not being lgbtq. Thank you, thats all I’ve got to say ❤️

I would like to also add that I believe not only that the Bible is from expressed through human writers and there are hints of human biases throughout the Bible. Just look at heinous tragedy of “spilling seed” in the case of Judah and his sons and Tamar. At the time, society was for propagating. And also take a look at the story of the adulterous woman the Pharisees brought to Jesus to have her stoned. If there was an adulterous woman, there must have had sexual relations with men, implicating them also in adultery. But where are these men? Were they punished as well or was only the woman punished (kind of like the witch trials in Salem)? Why is the Bible mute about thee men. Was the woman commiting adultery by herself? The interpretation that makes most sense is that the Bible including the New Testament was written mostly be men with biased patriarchical views based on the time period that they lived in, so to talk about stoning the men along with the woman must’ve prob been covered up. This shows that the Buble is a human book made by humans (with some divine inspiration but surely not completely). Then we have to wonder about the circumstances regarding the passages regarding clobber passages used by some Christians to condemn homosexuality as a sin.

In short, live and let live. Everyone will have a chance in front of God at the judgement seat, according to most Christians. Only God is sovereign to decide. We shouldnt be casting any stones at this point. If he allows His agape love to accept love between two consenting adults who love God, I dont see the problem. But that is my view. And I hope from this thread that any church kids who are deep in the closet and are struggling with their sexuality feelings to know that it’s okay. God loves you all the same and don’t be scared to reach out to me or any of the sisters who shared about their experiences regarding this issue.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I take serious issue with this thread being deleted AGAIN. I and others have poured time as well as serious thought into it, and, I'm not joking, hours of walking around in agony considering how to respond in the most compassionate way. I have numerous drafts still in limbo as I've tried to squeeze some time in during the week after work to respond to the many responses posted this week.

Let me remind everyone what the original post of this thread said:

Hello all, I am representing all the queerfolk, trans, bisexual, basically lgbtqia, since the last one landed in a disaster. and I would like to form a civilized discussion. No name calling etc. So what are ex-LC members experience with those they know who have left the church due to their own or friends/ family members’ different sexuality and gender identity issues? and what are you guys’ stance on this hot topic.

This has been as civilized a discussion as you can hope given the topic, as well as some of the awkwardness inherent in the subject, and any failures in keeping it civilized have come from both sides.

Everyone has provided their stance on the "hot topic", just as requested -- there is nothing to delete here. To come on a largely Christian forum and ask for a discussion on a contentious topic and then repeatedly delete the entire history of it because you don't like the responses that were totally in-line with everything you asked for, is beyond frustrating, as well as disrespectful to those participating.

There is no "thanks to us". Don't throw that at the people who complied with the original post. The "thanks to us" belongs to SerenityLives who wants anything that handles this topic logically and rationally deleted from existence.

I DEALT WITH YOU CALLING GOD GAY AND JESUS HOMOSEXUAL AND I DIDN'T ONCE ASK FOR THE THREAD TO BE DELETED.

I personally think there is a lot of value in what has been written not only from the "side" or perspective I hold, but also in all the experiences, articles, thoughts, feelings, points of view, and responses from the pro-LGBTQ lifestyle side. Someone on the LGBTQ side may come onto this thread and get tremendous help from those who are in favor of it.

The heart CAN'T be trusted, we are NOT to lean on our own understanding. That's not an "attack on the gays". That's the truth of God's word no matter what the topic.

And for heaven's sake, no one here "hates the gays" as you keep claiming. I don't know how many more times I need to say, both from my perspective, as well as what the Word says, that it's the sexual act that is the issue. That's it. NO ONE HERE "HATES THE GAYS", SO STOP MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS.

Leave this thread be.

Thanks so much for expressing yourself on this thread.

And by the way. Maybe SenerityLives doesn't realize that a google search of LGBTQ will list this thread, as soon as the google spider digs it up.

So I don't want it deleted either The OP doesn't express her hopes, but she has them. But she's the boss of this thread.

And I don't remember calling God gay. I think I called Him a homophobe, which can be backed up with scripture. And there's no sound scripture that Jesus was gay. At most there's just inferences and conjecture.

If anyone is gay, it's males that love the man Jesus fervently, like a lover.